Vigilant II

 
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Raven
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Post by Raven » Sun. Dec. 31, 2017 9:48 am

Well.... figured out the stacking, figured out the slicing and shaking, but can't figure out the not overfiring part. It's been really good until last night. I could hardly keep it from the 750°F mark. Leading up to this, I was keeping the air control at hardly an 1/8 open and it stayed right at 550°f. Last night I ended up shutting it completely, as it just won't settle down, and still managed to make its way up to 800°f plus. It was really steady for days before and would adjust readily and stay there. Now it's sort of making me nervous. It's been frigid, the wind chills were into the -25-30° range last night. I live on a knoll with no obstructions, where it's always breezy on a still day. Only thing I can think of is an over draft, unless the stove has a huge leak somewhere...
How do you calm coal down when it's trying to get out of hand? It doesn't seem to like being taken away from its bed, so I'll bank it a bit and it will cool down for a time. It not a great solution though. Advice from the folks of coal wisdom is much appreciated!
Also, does everyone burn when they aren't home? We quit burning wood unattended....


 
franco b
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Post by franco b » Sun. Dec. 31, 2017 9:56 am

Probably the ash door is leaking air.
Do the dollar bill test by closing a dollar bill all around the door to see if it is gripped.

Inspect the gasket, and if it looks good the most likely cause is the door is sagging a bit and the gasket is not being contacted in the middle.

if so, you can loosen the two bolts at the hinge end and while holding the far end up, tighten the bolts.

 
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michaelanthony
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Post by michaelanthony » Sun. Dec. 31, 2017 10:00 am

^^^^^^ +1 Good morning Raven, it's a good idea to keep a 5 gallon bucket of sand and or ash if things go south on you and you need to tame things. Never throw water on a stove, you can get seriously injured.
It is sounding like you need a new ash pan door gasket, other than the primary flapper that should be the only way air can enter the stove. Try the dollar bill test, close the ash door on a dollar bill and then tug on the bill. There should be resistance when pulled. Do this all around the door.
Last edited by michaelanthony on Sun. Dec. 31, 2017 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

 
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Turbogeno
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Post by Turbogeno » Sun. Dec. 31, 2017 10:02 am

Check out the gasket posts starting here.

Vigilant II Is Just Humming Along!!!

 
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Raven
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Post by Raven » Sun. Dec. 31, 2017 12:38 pm

Turbogeno wrote:
Sun. Dec. 31, 2017 10:02 am
Check out the gasket posts starting here.

Vigilant II Is Just Humming Along!!!
Thanks! Just when I thought I made it through most of that thread....I missed this lol

 
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Raven
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Post by Raven » Sun. Dec. 31, 2017 12:39 pm

The ash pan gasket is new last year, as well as all of the others, but I'll try the dollar test and check out the adjustments! Thanks everyone!

 
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michaelanthony
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Post by michaelanthony » Sun. Dec. 31, 2017 1:05 pm

Raven wrote:
Sun. Dec. 31, 2017 12:39 pm
The ash pan gasket is new last year, as well as all of the others, but I'll try the dollar test and check out the adjustments! Thanks everyone!
Other than the gaskets, does the primary air flap close when the stove reaches it's set point?


 
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Lightning
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Post by Lightning » Sun. Dec. 31, 2017 2:59 pm

Baro or MPD to ease the draft down a bit?

 
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michaelanthony
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Post by michaelanthony » Sun. Dec. 31, 2017 3:10 pm

Lightning wrote:
Sun. Dec. 31, 2017 2:59 pm
Baro or MPD to ease the draft down a bit?
Sorry Lee, with the bi-metal T-stat none needed. Too windy the primary closes immediately, quite a stove.

There is a leak somewhere on Raven's stove for it to rage, hoping they find it.

 
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VigIIPeaBurner
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Post by VigIIPeaBurner » Sun. Dec. 31, 2017 4:35 pm

Hi Raven - With draft like you're describing, try to find some pea sized coal and use that exclusively. It appears you're burning larger sized nut coal that leaves a lot of space between the pieces of coal and with a good strong draft like you're having now in the extreme cold, the heat just passes thru the stove and the temperature swings with each adjustment of the thermostatic flap.

I have run my stove at 700 F, the max that VC recommends. I've done this for 17 seasons now and have found the grille will sag with quite a few occasional over-firings. Note that the manual state exceeding 700 temperature for "short periods" will not harm the stove. Invest in an infrared thermometer. It reads temperatures accurately and instantly. I don't mess with the flap setting daily and I might not touch it for a month or more. It maintains itself at a given temperature by opening or closing the flap as heat washes off the stove into the room or builds in the stove as the stove warms. It will cruise just fine. If your flap-chain is adjusted properly, setting it just slightly left of straight up and down (11:45 on the clock?!) it should do 600-700 just fine.

You have to consider the heating load your house on the hill needs in this extreme cold. The Vigilant is rated at 50,000 BYU's per hour. I've never been certain if that's input rating or output rating. If we do the math and assume that coal yields an average of 12,000 BTUs per pound, then if I put 90 lbs of coal thru the Vigilant in a 24 hour period (input of 45,000 btu/hr), "that's all she's got Captain" (sorry ... Scotty from the original Star Trek series!). You could feed more coal and still not harm it IMHO - 100 lbs in calculates to 50,000 btu/hr. Then factor in that the stove isn't likely more than 80% efficient (input vs output).
  • [(90 lb x 12,000 btu) x 0.80 / 24 hr = 36,000/ hr heat to the room
You might need a larger stove if the Vigilant can't carry it or do what I do and share the heat load with my oil furnace.

 
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Rich W.
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Post by Rich W. » Sun. Dec. 31, 2017 5:49 pm

Just curious...if we “feed more coal... - 100 lbs in calculates to 50,000 btu/hr,” how many times would we be tending in a 24 hour period? I figure I add 20 lbs with each 12 hour tending while burning at 400-425*.

 
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VigIIPeaBurner
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Post by VigIIPeaBurner » Sun. Dec. 31, 2017 7:23 pm

YMMV! It all depends on your coal and how much ash it has.content.

Right now I've been running at 600-650 and adding about 80-90 lbs 4 times a day (2 x 5gal buckets pea). I give it a short shake each time until I see the light under the grates. 6' up my double wall stove pipe is a short section of single as it joins the chimney. I measure about 160-170 surface temp on the pipe. Using Frank b's formula, that means my flue gas is about 250*F. I give it a short shake each time until I see the light under the grates.

 
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Raven
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Post by Raven » Sun. Dec. 31, 2017 8:30 pm

VigIIPeaBurner wrote:
Sun. Dec. 31, 2017 4:35 pm
Hi Raven - With draft like you're describing, try to find some pea sized coal and use that exclusively. It appears you're burning larger sized nut coal that leaves a lot of space between the pieces of coal and with a good strong draft like you're having now in the extreme cold, the heat just passes thru the stove and the temperature swings with each adjustment of the thermostatic flap.

I have run my stove at 700 F, the max that VC recommends. I've done this for 17 seasons now and have found the grille will sag with quite a few occasional over-firings. Note that the manual state exceeding 700 temperature for "short periods" will not harm the stove. Invest in an infrared thermometer. It reads temperatures accurately and instantly. I don't mess with the flap setting daily and I might not touch it for a month or more. It maintains itself at a given temperature by opening or closing the flap as heat washes off the stove into the room or builds in the stove as the stove warms. It will cruise just fine. If your flap-chain is adjusted properly, setting it just slightly left of straight up and down (11:45 on the clock?!) it should do 600-700 just fine.

You have to consider the heating load your house on the hill needs in this extreme cold. The Vigilant is rated at 50,000 BYU's per hour. I've never been certain if that's input rating or output rating. If we do the math and assume that coal yields an average of 12,000 BTUs per pound, then if I put 90 lbs of coal thru the Vigilant in a 24 hour period (input of 45,000 btu/hr), "that's all she's got Captain" (sorry ... Scotty from the original Star Trek series!). You could feed more coal and still not harm it IMHO - 100 lbs in calculates to 50,000 btu/hr. Then factor in that the stove isn't likely more than 80% efficient (input vs output).
  • [(90 lb x 12,000 btu) x 0.80 / 24 hr = 36,000/ hr heat to the room
You might need a larger stove if the Vigilant can't carry it or do what I do and share the heat load with my oil furnace.
Thanks for this!
Interestingly, this stove, burning wood, will heat the house better than the coal is currently from my limited experience (1 full season last year on wood w/ the vig., and a mere few weeks this year with cole- started with wood). I'm trying not to judge too hard though, as we haven't had a cold snap like this living here yet AND with using cole OR wood either for that matter. We are running both furnace and the Vig. Right now too :)
I have had the flap down most of the day, I realized it has a small bend at one of the corners and is not actually closed when I manually shut it down. So obviously getting a bit of air, working on straightening that out now. I'm definitely going to get an infrared thermometer, I don't trust these surface ones.
I let it ash up today and haven't sliced since this AM, which seems to be helping keep things a bit more in check the last couple of hours. Is it possible to tend too much? I think I'll leave it like this to go to bed tonight, I've put some fresh cole on top. And yes, :what: we are burning nut, and will definitely go to pea instead! I've managed (assuming it was from me) to warp the front grill, I replaced it Friday already, realizing my many mistakes from everyone here. I hope to not do that again!
Chain also seems out of adjustment or too short? 11:45 is wide open. I've noticed the stove is great at handling wood when it becomes too hot, it will shut the plate, or I'll wake up to a cold stove where the air flap has been wide open trying to keep it going....it seems to work well in this respect. I can't say I've noticed it attempting to control the burn with cole so far :?
I do know, I've learned an enormous amount about all of this, it's just NOT GOOD TIMING in the middle(ish) of winter :lol: I have some more maintenance to do on this poor stove in warmer months, that's for sure!!

 
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Raven
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Post by Raven » Sun. Dec. 31, 2017 8:47 pm

michaelanthony wrote:
Sun. Dec. 31, 2017 3:10 pm
Sorry Lee, with the bi-metal T-stat none needed. Too windy the primary closes immediately, quite a stove.

There is a leak somewhere on Raven's stove for it to rage, hoping they find it.
Agreed, I think that ash door needs more help in the future. I've adjusted the door, and gasket seems to get a good squish. I think it was a bit of a sag. I also have a small leak in one of the seams on the stove body also. It sucks a lighter flame in one small spot...not terrible. But it needs resealing now that I've learned all of these things.
The wind died down finally. I'm hoping for this to *mainly* have been a draft issue. The draft is incredible on this knoll....running at 500° with the door at hardly an 1/8- going to let it roll like this a while to see how well I can trust it first lol

 
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Rich W.
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Post by Rich W. » Sun. Dec. 31, 2017 9:50 pm

If by the “door” you mean the flap at the primary inlet, don’t worry if it closes. It will open when it needs to as the stove cools. Set the lever to whatever position yields the desired temp, and see if it will hold the temp. Remember it takes awhile for the stove to adjust to your changes.


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