Wet Coal or just more bang for my buck?
- SawDustJack
- Member
- Posts: 116
- Joined: Fri. Jan. 15, 2016 6:12 pm
- Location: Cape Cod
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Newcastle/Ironhouse;Warm Morning 617a
- Coal Size/Type: Stove/Nut
Hey all! OK, year three burning black rocks and of course still learning. This year, I switched to bagged LA Coal from bulk Blaschak. I haven't really changed my routine as overall it has been working well. I usually tend to it every 12 hours and the results are great, but.... I have noticed a change in how the new coal ignites vs the bulk coal. I am not sure if I am running into a "wet coal" issue as the bagged coal is wet coming out of the bag or if its just normal. I do open the bag about a week before it sees the stove to give it sometime to dry. So, my routine is I open the ash door a bit to rev the fire. Depending on how low of an idle the stove was in will depend on the time, but I do let it get going pretty good. I empty the ash tray at that time. Close it up and shake it down until small coals in the pan. Open the ash door again to let the fire recover for a minute or so and suck fly ash up. I open the primary door and add my coal. I leave a little hole so flame will come through to cut down on puff-back and close the primary door. I leave the ash door open a crack until I see a strong blue flame through out the whole bed and close it down to idle temp. The whole routine takes 10ish minutes. Its during the ignition of the new coal I am noticing a lot more crackling and fireworks in the stove. I use nut size coal and a lot of it will get all shattered up. Although it doesn't seem to have any affect on burn times or temp, it is messier and.... no one likes shattered nuts... I am getting a ton of fine little pieces in the door space and along the bottom of the window. Opening the primary door will often bring a lot of these small unburnt hot pieces out and spills them all over the floor. Is the LA just that much more volatile or should I dry the coal longer before I use it. Am I letting it get too hot up after adding coal? Seems like if I don't I run into puff back issues. The blaschak would crackle some, but not like this. Do people open the bags a long time before using it?
- freetown fred
- Member
- Posts: 30300
- Joined: Thu. Dec. 31, 2009 12:33 pm
- Location: Freetown,NY 13803
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
- Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut
S, what is LA??? Any bagged seems to hold the moisture way more then bulk & YES, smart burners find a way to open bags & put in something so it'll be drier before burning it. Kinda a PIA unless ya got no options. Why did you go to bagged?
- Bob500
- Member
- Posts: 86
- Joined: Sun. Feb. 28, 2016 9:14 am
- Location: Newington, CT
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Coal Chubby
- Coal Size/Type: Anthracite nut
- Other Heating: gas steam
I have been using Lehigh nut for the past year or so. i have found some of the cracking and broken bits on the inner rim of my Chubby. It doesn't cause much of a problem for me. I just push them back in the fire when tending it. I'm getting long burn times and a lot less ash using the Lehigh. I open the bags up and let them dry in my mud room for a week or so prior to burning.
- freetown fred
- Member
- Posts: 30300
- Joined: Thu. Dec. 31, 2009 12:33 pm
- Location: Freetown,NY 13803
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
- Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut
Water wet shouldn't cause crackling & fireworks I'm thinkin. I know my bulk BLASCHAK comes oiled & will do that some. Wonderin why you made the switch? I been happily burnin BLASCHAK for 10 yrs or so. PS, you're doin everything right S.
- Rob R.
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 18004
- Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
- Location: Chazy, NY
- Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr
Some coal crackles and pops more than others, I am not sure why. Best theory is that it has something to do with the hardness of the coal, and the volatile gasses inside it.
I have burned some Blaschak rice in my EFM - it certainly burned differently than the Lehigh rice I have been burning for years now. The coal itself also looked different -the best way I can describe it is that the Leigh coal was mostly small square pieces, and it make some noise in the auger. The Blaschak coal had a lot of smaller pieces, and the bigger pieces were long and skinny...it was almost silent in the auger. I think the Blaschak coal was a little softer.
I have burned some Blaschak rice in my EFM - it certainly burned differently than the Lehigh rice I have been burning for years now. The coal itself also looked different -the best way I can describe it is that the Leigh coal was mostly small square pieces, and it make some noise in the auger. The Blaschak coal had a lot of smaller pieces, and the bigger pieces were long and skinny...it was almost silent in the auger. I think the Blaschak coal was a little softer.
- freetown fred
- Member
- Posts: 30300
- Joined: Thu. Dec. 31, 2009 12:33 pm
- Location: Freetown,NY 13803
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
- Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut
Definitely seems to be a big difference between bagged or bulk--any brand. I'm not talkin harder or softer, just dampness, fines, etc.
- windyhill4.2
- Member
- Posts: 6072
- Joined: Fri. Nov. 22, 2013 2:17 pm
- Location: Jonestown,Pa.17038
- Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
- Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both
My few times of putting wet-ish coal in my stove caused bombs bursting in there & made me decide all coal inbound for my stove would henceforth be dry.I did not like coal clinking up against the glass.
- SawDustJack
- Member
- Posts: 116
- Joined: Fri. Jan. 15, 2016 6:12 pm
- Location: Cape Cod
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Newcastle/Ironhouse;Warm Morning 617a
- Coal Size/Type: Stove/Nut
Thanks for the feedback! FF, I switched to the bagged as I was buying Blaschak by the bucket. The price I got on the bagged Lehigh delivered was about the same so I went with that so now I won't be having to make a trip every two weeks for coal. I have read so many good things about Lehigh and Blaschak on here, I thought it would be a good move. The Lehigh has been burning fine other than the mess it makes on ignition. The bulk I was buying is in a open outside bin that I often would have to shovel snow off of and got it many times in the rain but it does crackle anything like the bags.
- SawDustJack
- Member
- Posts: 116
- Joined: Fri. Jan. 15, 2016 6:12 pm
- Location: Cape Cod
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Newcastle/Ironhouse;Warm Morning 617a
- Coal Size/Type: Stove/Nut
I think I might have to start opening the bags for a longer period of time before hitting the stove with it!windyhill4.2 wrote: ↑Sun. Nov. 26, 2017 1:23 pmMy few times of putting wet-ish coal in my stove caused bombs bursting in there & made me decide all coal inbound for my stove would henceforth be dry.I did not like coal clinking up against the glass.
- Lightning
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 14669
- Joined: Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 9:51 am
- Location: Olean, NY
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Modified AA 130
- Coal Size/Type: Pea Size - Anthracite
Lehigh Anthracite
That's easy, because its the best
SawDustJack wrote: ↑Sun. Nov. 26, 2017 11:15 amSo, my routine is I open the ash door a bit to rev the fire. Depending on how low of an idle the stove was in will depend on the time, but I do let it get going pretty good.
I quoted these from your first post because it sounds to me like you are putting cold coal on top of a really hot fire. I recently had the same experience with the LA coal, yesterday as a matter of fact. I revved up the fire before shake down a little hotter than usual. After the ash evac routine the coal bed was still hot, bright orange and prit near giving me a sun burn lol. I put the fresh cold coal on top and there was A LOT more snap, crackle, pop than normal. To the point that it was ricocheting off the fire box walls. Why was this time different? The only difference I can see was the hotter left over fuel bed.SawDustJack wrote: ↑Sun. Nov. 26, 2017 11:15 amOpen the ash door again to let the fire recover for a minute or so and suck fly ash up.
My take on the "cause" of the fracturing is just simply because of the exteme heat differences between the left over feul bed and the fresh cold coal. Coal has similar "matter characteristics" as glass. Drop it on a concrete floor, it shatters like glass. Pound it with a hammer, it again shatters like glass. Put cold coal over a hot fire, and it shatters like glass would if you were to throw cold water on hot glass. Of course some coal is slightly softer and harder. The softer coal is a little more forgiving, the harder coal is more sensitive to extreme temperature changes. LA coal I believe is on the harder side of the spectrum. What happens when you throw some dime size stones in a bonfire? You better back the hell up
This would help explain why the coal in your bin, that is exposed to plenty of water doesn't fracture like the LA. The "Black Shack" coal is probably a little softer.
- freetown fred
- Member
- Posts: 30300
- Joined: Thu. Dec. 31, 2009 12:33 pm
- Location: Freetown,NY 13803
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
- Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut
J, I just try & keep things a lot more simpler then a lot of people--not real great with formulas, density issues or the like but I do know common sense when I see it--I'm thinkin you got it & YES, openin those bags & letting em set a while longer sounds like a winner.
- SawDustJack
- Member
- Posts: 116
- Joined: Fri. Jan. 15, 2016 6:12 pm
- Location: Cape Cod
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Newcastle/Ironhouse;Warm Morning 617a
- Coal Size/Type: Stove/Nut
Lightning, that has been exactly what I have been experiencing. Lots of snap, crackle, pop! So I guess I am over revving the stove? I will try to cut down on the time I rev it up. I will also let the coal dry longer. I am also going to make a piece of sheet metal to fit over the space between the door and the top of the fire bricks. In the picture you can see where all the debris gathers. I have always had to clean this but not nearly as much as with the Lehigh snap, crakle, pop!
Attachments
-
- Member
- Posts: 705
- Joined: Sat. Nov. 08, 2014 11:47 am
- Location: Quakertown, PA
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker '81 KA4 (online 1/16/17)
- Coal Size/Type: WAS Lehigh Rice (TBD)
- Other Heating: EFM SPK600
I burned bagged rice last year. The coal was definitely more wet than using bulk. I stabbed holes in the bags with a Phillips screwdriver as they were stacked. Probably 4 or 5 holes on the low sides of the bags and let the excess water drain. Made a big difference.
- Sunny Boy
- Member
- Posts: 25727
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
- Location: Central NY
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
- Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
- Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
- Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace
Couple of weeks ago I picked up a few bags of the LA nut to try. It was wet, but no wetter than bagged Blaschak, or Kimmels that I've gotten in the past.
My bulk nut gets delivered washed and still wet and I don't wait for it to dry out before using it.
I've also used the Blaschak and Kimmels while they were still wet.
I wanted to test the LA the same way, so I loaded it into the stove wet using the same procedure of getting a hot fire going before refueling that I always use, and the LA sure does snap and pop more than any other.
Paul
My bulk nut gets delivered washed and still wet and I don't wait for it to dry out before using it.
I've also used the Blaschak and Kimmels while they were still wet.
I wanted to test the LA the same way, so I loaded it into the stove wet using the same procedure of getting a hot fire going before refueling that I always use, and the LA sure does snap and pop more than any other.
Paul
- Homesteader
- Member
- Posts: 299
- Joined: Sat. Aug. 13, 2016 4:24 pm
- Location: Goshen, CT.
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark II
- Coal Size/Type: Nut, Stove
- Other Heating: H.B. Smith oil fired boiler
This is my second year burning Lehigh nut and it does do a lot of snap crackle and pop when I do a reload. I bought it in bulk and have it covered in my outside bin so when I bring it into my inside bin it is pretty dry. So my take on it is that it doesn't matter all that much if it is dry or wet; I think its just the nature of the coal.