First Coal Experience
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- Member
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- Joined: Thu. Nov. 23, 2017 3:11 pm
- Location: NW PA
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: DS AquaGem 1100
- Coal Size/Type: Blaschak bulk pea/nut
- Other Heating: LP Boiler
Hi everyone. I've been reading the forums for awhile and decided to get some anthracite from my local Amish supplier to try in my 1973 Suburban Hand-fired furnace. The unit was in the house when I moved in and the previous owner said they only burned wood, but it's clearly labeled and marked "Coal Furnace". It has shaker grates, nearly all the air comes from below the grates, and has a decently deep firebox. The chimney is a masonry chimney with stainless steel pipe from top to bottom, about 30 feet high, and I get great draft. I've also been burning wood in the unit very successfully.
Getting the coal fire started has been a challenging learning experiment but after about 10 attempts using different startup techniques, the best results so far for getting a nice coal bed built has been this: Get my wood fire going really hot, develop a nice bed of coals, add in a few small pieces of wood on the sides, back, and front, start slowly adding coal in a nice, tall pile in the middle of the grates. Then as each layer turns red, keep adding shovel full's at a time on top of the pile in the middle. However, the fire doesn't seem to catch on well latterly.
So I end up with a nice burning, tall pile in the center of my firebox but really need more surface area to up the BTU output. Every attempt to spread the fire out on the grates seems to put it out. I was having trouble the first few times because I wasn't adding enough coal. I thought I could throw in a couple of stove-sized pieces here and there but quickly realized the importance of a bed after reading other posts here.
As for coal, I got Blaschak stove size from the Amish store but I can't seem to get it started well. I also tried some nut size from Tractor Supply and I've had better luck with that so far. I assume it's just the stove size is too large for my furnace because it appears that Blaschak is a good brand? I picked that to start because the furnace manual says to use large or stove size coal. I do plan to get some nut size Blaschak to compare.
Any suggestions are welcome, it's been a learning experience for sure! I feel like starting a wood fire was a simple job that I could do blind-folded and I need a Master's degree in coal burning to start a coal fire, lol. I'm eager to catch on though because I'm looking forward to 10-12 hour burns without tending.
Getting the coal fire started has been a challenging learning experiment but after about 10 attempts using different startup techniques, the best results so far for getting a nice coal bed built has been this: Get my wood fire going really hot, develop a nice bed of coals, add in a few small pieces of wood on the sides, back, and front, start slowly adding coal in a nice, tall pile in the middle of the grates. Then as each layer turns red, keep adding shovel full's at a time on top of the pile in the middle. However, the fire doesn't seem to catch on well latterly.
So I end up with a nice burning, tall pile in the center of my firebox but really need more surface area to up the BTU output. Every attempt to spread the fire out on the grates seems to put it out. I was having trouble the first few times because I wasn't adding enough coal. I thought I could throw in a couple of stove-sized pieces here and there but quickly realized the importance of a bed after reading other posts here.
As for coal, I got Blaschak stove size from the Amish store but I can't seem to get it started well. I also tried some nut size from Tractor Supply and I've had better luck with that so far. I assume it's just the stove size is too large for my furnace because it appears that Blaschak is a good brand? I picked that to start because the furnace manual says to use large or stove size coal. I do plan to get some nut size Blaschak to compare.
Any suggestions are welcome, it's been a learning experience for sure! I feel like starting a wood fire was a simple job that I could do blind-folded and I need a Master's degree in coal burning to start a coal fire, lol. I'm eager to catch on though because I'm looking forward to 10-12 hour burns without tending.
- Lightning
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 14669
- Joined: Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 9:51 am
- Location: Olean, NY
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Modified AA 130
- Coal Size/Type: Pea Size - Anthracite
Oh man, firstly Happy Thanksgiving and secondly welcome aboard. You've made the right decision to join and burn coal. The #1 problem that newbies have is simply not putting enough coal in the fire box. I made this mistake too, mine will take 110 pounds easy. I'm not sure what yours will hold, but you must fill it to the top of the fire brick level, then mound more in the center. Stove size or at least a mix of nut and stove are the most forgiving. It's recovery after loading is fast also. You won't need to spread it out if it's full.
As for starting fires, Match Light charcoal works really good. Put a three inch layer in first, add an 8 inch layer of coal on top of that and light the charcoal from the bottom, go in thru the ash pan door pointing the flame up thru the grates with a propane torch to get it going.
As for starting fires, Match Light charcoal works really good. Put a three inch layer in first, add an 8 inch layer of coal on top of that and light the charcoal from the bottom, go in thru the ash pan door pointing the flame up thru the grates with a propane torch to get it going.
- Rob R.
- Site Moderator
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- Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
- Location: Chazy, NY
- Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr
Depending on the size of the firebox, stove size may be too large. Nut size is probably a better choice, and pea may be excellent as well.
Burning Anthracite is a team effort. It takes a certain number of players no matter what. If the firebox is real small you need to use smaller coal to have the right number of players.
Burning Anthracite is a team effort. It takes a certain number of players no matter what. If the firebox is real small you need to use smaller coal to have the right number of players.
- SawDustJack
- Member
- Posts: 116
- Joined: Fri. Jan. 15, 2016 6:12 pm
- Location: Cape Cod
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Newcastle/Ironhouse;Warm Morning 617a
- Coal Size/Type: Stove/Nut
Other than what these other guys are saying, I would suggest that you don't try to physically "spread" the fire. Coal hates to be disturbed once it is lit. Just keep piling it on as Lightning has said, and it will spread off to the sides on it own as long as some air is moving through it. Burning coal is really a team effort and the more coal the better. Blaschak is a good brand.
- RSorjanen
- Member
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- Joined: Sun. Oct. 27, 2013 7:52 am
- Location: Moscow Maine
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby,Warm Morning 617A/Warm Morning 523
- Baseburners & Antiques: Empress Atlantic
- Coal Size/Type: nut, pea
when you add coal you state "start slowly adding coal in a nice, tall pile in the middle of the grates" when you do add coal are all the grates covered with coal? This would make sure all air is going through the bed of coal. I would think that mounding it up after the coal fire is established is good.
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- Coal Size/Type: nut and pea
I agree. A pile in the middle may allow air to bypass the coal. Cover the whole grate.RSorjanen wrote: ↑Thu. Nov. 23, 2017 8:40 pmwhen you add coal you state "start slowly adding coal in a nice, tall pile in the middle of the grates" when you do add coal are all the grates covered with coal? This would make sure all air is going through the bed of coal. I would think that mounding it up after the coal fire is established is good.
- Rich W.
- Member
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- Location: Newport County, Rhode Island
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Castings Vigilant Multi-Fuel (coal for me); Vermont Castings Vigilant 2310 in the shop
- Coal Size/Type: Nut
- Other Heating: System 2000 Oil Burner; VC Resolute Woodstove (sold) Jotul 8 Woodstove (sold)
All of this great advice got me underway a few years ago; these guys know their stuff, so follow their advice completely. Only thing I would add is that I line the grates with paper, except for a hole in the center where airflow is concentrated at start up. Hold the paper down with a layer of coal, except briquettes over the hole, then covered with coal. This “turbocharges” the start up. Add a dose of patience (something I’m not known for) and watch the coal fire spread horizontally. The paper will burn away, allowing air flow through the whole coal bed. Good luck; and welcome to the world of 12 hour burn times.
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- Member
- Posts: 47
- Joined: Thu. Nov. 23, 2017 3:11 pm
- Location: NW PA
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: DS AquaGem 1100
- Coal Size/Type: Blaschak bulk pea/nut
- Other Heating: LP Boiler
Thanks for all the replies.
The fire was burning really well all day and evening. I would say I had about a 40 pound bag in total burning well, loading it a couple scoops at a time. Yesterday's results were using mostly new nut coal and mixing in a lot of un-burned coal from my many previous attempts. I did try some more of the stove sized during layering but still had a hell of a time getting it to catch on. I ended up with the widest mound I've had, completely covering the grates to the firebrick horizontally but still had some open grate area at the very back and front. Maybe that's where I'm still running into issues? The air entrance from under the grates comes from the front so maybe too much air was coming up in the front few inches of grates that were not covered with coal.
While I was adding the coal over several hours yesterday, I left the ash pan door cracked about 1/2" with the air control(bi-metal non-electric thermostat based) fully open. The fire was burning with nice flames and the new coal added was catching on within a few minutes. After loading what I thought was enough, I closed the ash pan door but left the air control fully open. I check on it about 1/2 hour later and still had small flames and very hot, red coal.
Then I went to bed and set my alarm to wake up in 4 hours and check it. During the day I had been checking it hourly. When I woke up from the alarm about 1AM, the coal lower in the pile was slightly red but no flames. I quickly opened the ash pan door completely to hope it would revive the fire but must have been too far gone as it continued to extinguish over the next couple of hours.
I will work on a pic but my iPhone camera is non-functional at the moment. The firebox is about 10" wide x 24" long x ~10" deep. The top of the firebrick is about level with the bottom of the loading door, which the manual states is the max capacity for coal. I would guess when packed completely full, the firebox would hold about 80 pounds of nut coal.
So, back to cleaning out a firebox full of mostly un-burnt coal, cleaning out, and trying again.
The fire was burning really well all day and evening. I would say I had about a 40 pound bag in total burning well, loading it a couple scoops at a time. Yesterday's results were using mostly new nut coal and mixing in a lot of un-burned coal from my many previous attempts. I did try some more of the stove sized during layering but still had a hell of a time getting it to catch on. I ended up with the widest mound I've had, completely covering the grates to the firebrick horizontally but still had some open grate area at the very back and front. Maybe that's where I'm still running into issues? The air entrance from under the grates comes from the front so maybe too much air was coming up in the front few inches of grates that were not covered with coal.
While I was adding the coal over several hours yesterday, I left the ash pan door cracked about 1/2" with the air control(bi-metal non-electric thermostat based) fully open. The fire was burning with nice flames and the new coal added was catching on within a few minutes. After loading what I thought was enough, I closed the ash pan door but left the air control fully open. I check on it about 1/2 hour later and still had small flames and very hot, red coal.
Then I went to bed and set my alarm to wake up in 4 hours and check it. During the day I had been checking it hourly. When I woke up from the alarm about 1AM, the coal lower in the pile was slightly red but no flames. I quickly opened the ash pan door completely to hope it would revive the fire but must have been too far gone as it continued to extinguish over the next couple of hours.
I will work on a pic but my iPhone camera is non-functional at the moment. The firebox is about 10" wide x 24" long x ~10" deep. The top of the firebrick is about level with the bottom of the loading door, which the manual states is the max capacity for coal. I would guess when packed completely full, the firebox would hold about 80 pounds of nut coal.
So, back to cleaning out a firebox full of mostly un-burnt coal, cleaning out, and trying again.
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- Member
- Posts: 47
- Joined: Thu. Nov. 23, 2017 3:11 pm
- Location: NW PA
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: DS AquaGem 1100
- Coal Size/Type: Blaschak bulk pea/nut
- Other Heating: LP Boiler
This is what I thought but I've had a difficult time getting the coal started covering the whole grate. I guess I need to repeat what worked yesterday but as I continue to add, make sure I end up covering the whole grate. It doesn't matter that the coal added on top of the burning pile is catching on much more rapidly than the coal "around" the fire?
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- Member
- Posts: 47
- Joined: Thu. Nov. 23, 2017 3:11 pm
- Location: NW PA
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: DS AquaGem 1100
- Coal Size/Type: Blaschak bulk pea/nut
- Other Heating: LP Boiler
I've tried the charcoal method twice with little to no success. The best results so far have been staring with the coal after developing a really hot wood fire with a nice bed of coals. Maybe it just doesn't work well in my furnace.Lightning wrote: ↑Thu. Nov. 23, 2017 3:57 pmOh man, firstly Happy Thanksgiving and secondly welcome aboard. You've made the right decision to join and burn coal. The #1 problem that newbies have is simply not putting enough coal in the fire box. I made this mistake too, mine will take 110 pounds easy. I'm not sure what yours will hold, but you must fill it to the top of the fire brick level, then mound more in the center. Stove size or at least a mix of nut and stove are the most forgiving. It's recovery after loading is fast also. You won't need to spread it out if it's full.
As for starting fires, Match Light charcoal works really good. Put a three inch layer in first, add an 8 inch layer of coal on top of that and light the charcoal from the bottom, go in thru the ash pan door pointing the flame up thru the grates with a propane torch to get it going.
- nepacoal
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- Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4 / "Kelly" and an EFM 520 at my in-laws
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- Coal Size/Type: Buck
As others have said, you need to fill the stove up to the top of the fire bricks to make it function correctly. mounting it high in the middle is also recommended. And never ever walk away from the stove with the ash door open. It will over fire and warp the grates and is not safe. I always used lump charcoal to start my hand fired boiler. I would also add that coal hates being touched and stirred like a wood fire. It should only be touched while shaking and reloading. Then enjoy 12 to 15 hours of heat.
- Lightning
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- Posts: 14669
- Joined: Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 9:51 am
- Location: Olean, NY
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Modified AA 130
- Coal Size/Type: Pea Size - Anthracite
When you add layers, they should be full (front to back and side to side) and level layers. For example, if using wood kindling get a good fire going and let it burn down some, add a full 2 inch layer, let it catch, add another full 2 inch layer and so on, till it's built up level to the top of the fire brick. If the stove will hold 80 pounds then it should have 80 pounds in it when you are finished. Don't leave any grate area uncovered.
- windyhill4.2
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- Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both
The coal around the fire can't catch on fire !!! There is no fire UNDER it on the outside areas. I would strongly suggest that you cover the grates with Matchlite to at least 4 inches across the entire grates. When the Matchlite is burning good, add some coal... add coal across the ENTIRE grate.. from end to end & side to side..... do it in lite layers & let the coal start snapping b4 adding the next layer. Keep adding layers until the coal is to the top of the firebrick & then heap in higher.
Coal burns by air coming UP thru the coal bed,when you leave some grate area empty,the air bypasses the coal bed.
STOP looking for flames to be coming off the coal after it is in there for several hrs,be content with the glow !!
Coal is a slow,steady heating fuel,you need to make changes to your settings based on burning coal, not gasoline.
Coal burns by air coming UP thru the coal bed,when you leave some grate area empty,the air bypasses the coal bed.
STOP looking for flames to be coming off the coal after it is in there for several hrs,be content with the glow !!
Coal is a slow,steady heating fuel,you need to make changes to your settings based on burning coal, not gasoline.
- windyhill4.2
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- Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
- Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both
?????????????????????????????nickdearing88 wrote: ↑Fri. Nov. 24, 2017 8:54 amThanks for all the replies.
After loading what I thought was enough,
WHAT ??
ENOUGH ??
Based on what ???
Stop thinking !!!!
Start listening !
FILL the stove with coal... just like those of us who are currently heating with coal do.
It works !