Will Not Burn Coal Well

 
NoSmoke
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Location: Mid Coast Maine
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: New Yoker WC90
Baseburners & Antiques: Woods and Bishop Antique Pot Bellied Stove
Coal Size/Type: Stove/Nut/Pea Anthracite
Other Heating: Munchkin LP Boiler/Englander Pellet Stove/Perkins 4.108 Cogeneration diesel

Post by NoSmoke » Sun. Nov. 12, 2017 7:42 am

Please help, as you guys know I have been burning coal in various stoves for 23 years, even in woodstoves that are not even made for coal, yet with this latest one I just cannot seem to get it to burn. I know it is a process to walk through a diagnosis, and I will try by giving quality information:

....
My stove is an antique 1893 Woods and Bishop New Era #4 Pot bellied stove

I would not call this stove "air tight", but in wood fired runaway situations, it can be shut down enough to snuff out the fire. Air tight no, but nearly air tight...yes.

It has multiple draft doors, from an ash door, to an anti-clinker door to a upper damper on the loading door, to a removable frying pan lid, to a manual damper inside the chimney, to an automatic flapper damper for the wind we get here.

I have no draft gauge.

The chimney is 6 inches in diameter, has (2) 90 degree elbows, 3 feet of vertical rise off the stove, 4 feet of horizontal run, then 14 feet of height. It sticks out 2 feet above the roof and there is nothing close to it to impeded draft. Furthermore I live in 60 acres of open land with very limited trees. I can also see Mt Washington some 150 miles away from this hill.

I tried to burn both pea and nut coal with limited success of either. I prefer stove coal, but have not tried it yet. Coal was purchased years apart. I do not believe it is coal quality causing my problem.

Today was a coal burn failure yet there is no wind and super cold out. Draft should not have been an issue.

I can burn wood in the stove. How great I am not sure. I am burning green softwood I have kicking around so it is hard to judge.

,,,,

I am thinking I either have a down draft issue since I live so high up on this hill where wind howls down the stove pipe. That is why i have an automatic damper set to the heaviest setting, or air blowing across the top of the coal bed.

Any help would be appreciated. Sorry about Katie in 1930 clothing, but it was the only photo I had showing the indoor set up.

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windyhill4.2
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Post by windyhill4.2 » Sun. Nov. 12, 2017 8:22 am

Most folks find level horizontal pipe more aesthetic than a 45* horizontal pipe...
But,the 45* slope will benefit a better draft.

 
KingCoal
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Post by KingCoal » Sun. Nov. 12, 2017 8:30 am

NS,

do you have a pic of that auto damper ? even an illustration or search note.

since you mention that certain winds will simply drive straight down the flue i have had experience with that in several places i've lived over the yrs.

the solution that worked for them all was a rotating directional flue cap, you can google those words together and find them, i used the wind vane looking ones not the spiral spinners.

i made the first 2 i used myself and bought the 3rd. the 3rd was the best fit and finish, each worked pretty much just as well as the rest.

good luck, all other things seem to be favorable. although i'd try to get a manometer so you can tell for sure what the flue is doing, then again it works with wood in it.............

steve

 
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freetown fred
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Post by freetown fred » Sun. Nov. 12, 2017 8:47 am

NS, even with the MPD closed??

 
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michaelanthony
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Post by michaelanthony » Sun. Nov. 12, 2017 8:48 am

Hi NS, that's a nice looking stove. I would try the biggest pieces of 'nut size coal or stove size if you can. My pot belly, (Vogelzang like yours), loved the big pieces. The grate is small relative to the pot size and I think the bigger coal compensates for that. Good luck!

Mike.

 
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Post by SawDustJack » Sun. Nov. 12, 2017 8:54 am

I know a lot of people will surf both sections, but this might be better asked about in the antique section. That being said, I am wondering if it is set up for wood with a wood plate of some kind in the base that might restrict air flow to a coal fire. For coal size, I personally would say to stay away from pea size coal thinking that it is too small and limiting air flow for the stove and try the stove size if you have it.

 
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Sunny Boy
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Post by Sunny Boy » Sun. Nov. 12, 2017 9:10 am

michaelanthony wrote:
Sun. Nov. 12, 2017 8:48 am
Hi NS, that's a nice looking stove. I would try the biggest pieces of 'nut size coal or stove size if you can. My pot belly, (Vogelzang like yours), loved the big pieces. The grate is small relative to the pot size and I think the bigger coal compensates for that. Good luck!

Mike.
+1 to what Mike says.

Despite the lovely distraction, :D ..... looking at the stove, it seems that it's got a good depth to the firepot.

I had a smaller potbelly, but with a not-so-strong drafting chimney system. I had to get it going on a really hot wood fire with lots of bright embers before adding any coal. And then, it wouldn't run well on anything less than nut size. Using small sized coal would just make it run sluggish at best. If your chimney can't produce a really strong draft that will make it tough to even get it started, much less run on it.

Try getting a good hot firebed established with just using the large sized coal. Once you have that going for say 45 - 60 minutes, then you can experiment by mixing in the smaller pieces to see what the stove and chimney system like best.

Also keep in mind. Unlike wood, coal is draft sensitive, and draft strength is weather sensitive. Using too small a size when it's not so cold outdoors will make the stove tougher to run. Save the small stuff for when it's really cold and the draft is much stronger. Mixing in some smaller pieces is a good way to help tame a strong coal fire draft.

Paul


 
franco b
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Post by franco b » Sun. Nov. 12, 2017 10:28 am

That's an easy drafting stove and should practically jump off the floor lighting coal or wood.

With a cold stove does it smoke into the room when starting?
Holding a lit piece of paper in the open loading door does it obviously pull in?

Is the setup the same as the previous stove which did burn coal?

 
NoSmoke
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Location: Mid Coast Maine
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Post by NoSmoke » Sun. Nov. 12, 2017 7:23 pm

KingCoal wrote:
Sun. Nov. 12, 2017 8:30 am
NS,

do you have a pic of that auto damper ? even an illustration or search note.

since you mention that certain winds will simply drive straight down the flue i have had experience with that in several places i've lived over the yrs.

the solution that worked for them all was a rotating directional flue cap, you can google those words together and find them, i used the wind vane looking ones not the spiral spinners.

i made the first 2 i used myself and bought the 3rd. the 3rd was the best fit and finish, each worked pretty much just as well as the rest.

good luck, all other things seem to be favorable. although i'd try to get a manometer so you can tell for sure what the flue is doing, then again it works with wood in it.............

steve
This is a very good suggestion and might be just what I need. There are days when we just cannot burn wood or coal because the winds are too strong. This just might be the solution.

 
NoSmoke
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Posts: 1442
Joined: Sun. Oct. 14, 2012 7:52 pm
Location: Mid Coast Maine
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: New Yoker WC90
Baseburners & Antiques: Woods and Bishop Antique Pot Bellied Stove
Coal Size/Type: Stove/Nut/Pea Anthracite
Other Heating: Munchkin LP Boiler/Englander Pellet Stove/Perkins 4.108 Cogeneration diesel

Post by NoSmoke » Sun. Nov. 12, 2017 7:31 pm

franco b wrote:
Sun. Nov. 12, 2017 10:28 am
That's an easy drafting stove and should practically jump off the floor lighting coal or wood.
Thanks, good to know. Compared to my old Vogelzang it seems well made.
franco b wrote:
Sun. Nov. 12, 2017 10:28 am
With a cold stove does it smoke into the room when starting?
Oh my goodness yes. Just a touch off level with the manual damper and the house is filled with smoke. Or it chuffs on a down-draft.
franco b wrote:
Sun. Nov. 12, 2017 10:28 am
Holding a lit piece of paper in the open loading door does it obviously pull in?
Sort of. I have to be really quick with the loading door. I have to slam it shut or it will not draft well. If the sliding draft on loading door is even cracked open, it will not draft. This is a pain because sometimes when it slams shuts, it will crack open and ruin the draft. I am thinking about securing it shut with weld/a bolt.
franco b wrote:
Sun. Nov. 12, 2017 10:28 am
Is the setup the same as the previous stove which did burn coal?
Honestly I do not know. We moved stove locations last year and upon hooking up the old pot bellied stove, realized it was crapped out and installed a wood only stove. I tried to burn coal in it, but with no real success, but no real long term try either.

 
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windyhill4.2
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Post by windyhill4.2 » Sun. Nov. 12, 2017 7:45 pm

Try a 45* slope on that 4' horizontal run,with it level,the hot air gets into the horizontal & meets cold air & can't figure out which way is up.

 
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oliver power
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Post by oliver power » Sun. Nov. 12, 2017 8:51 pm

1.) Hard to see in picture but, do you have any gap between the outside of stove pipe, and chimney pipe? Remedy: Stuff insulation in gap.

2.) Is the stove pipe going through a wall thimble, and pressed up against the far side of chimney? Remedy: Pull stove pipe out some.

3.) How about cleanout door/cap? Is it closed tight?

 
franco b
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Post by franco b » Sun. Nov. 12, 2017 9:05 pm

The 45 degree smoke pipe that David recommends would help, but the problem obviously is draft. What exactly is the chimney? Double wall insulated would be best, or is it a masonry chimney? A picture would be good.

It looks like it might be interior to the house. If so what are the interior dimensions?

 
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Post by ddahlgren » Sun. Nov. 12, 2017 9:18 pm

I am curious about 2 things, the automatic damper as in where is it and does it let room air in to kill draft or block flue gases to not let them out. The other thing is can air sneak around the grates and coal bed to just go up the chimney cooling it off killing draft?

 
NoSmoke
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Posts: 1442
Joined: Sun. Oct. 14, 2012 7:52 pm
Location: Mid Coast Maine
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: New Yoker WC90
Baseburners & Antiques: Woods and Bishop Antique Pot Bellied Stove
Coal Size/Type: Stove/Nut/Pea Anthracite
Other Heating: Munchkin LP Boiler/Englander Pellet Stove/Perkins 4.108 Cogeneration diesel

Post by NoSmoke » Mon. Nov. 13, 2017 6:34 am

oliver power wrote:
Sun. Nov. 12, 2017 8:51 pm
1.) Hard to see in picture but, do you have any gap between the outside of stove pipe, and chimney pipe? Remedy: Stuff insulation in gap.
No it is air tight, with triple wall thimble made for the application.
oliver power wrote:
Sun. Nov. 12, 2017 8:51 pm
2.) Is the stove pipe going through a wall thimble, and pressed up against the far side of chimney? Remedy: Pull stove pipe out some.
No, there is no real chimney, the stove pipe just turns upwards and goes above the roof. No masonry or triple wall chimney, just single wall pipe.
oliver power wrote:
Sun. Nov. 12, 2017 8:51 pm
3.) How about cleanout door/cap? Is it closed tight?
No clean out, it is just a 90 degree elbow so from stove to top of the chimney it is sealed well.


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