Hotblast Year 3

Modern and vintage hand fired coal stove are similar to a wood stove and in some cases can burn either. They need to be regulated and fed by hand usually every 12 to 24 hours depending on your usage. They require no power to operate making them ideal for rural settings with long power outages.
larryfoster
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Posts: 1165
Joined: Fri. Nov. 21, 2014 1:02 am
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Hot Blast 1557M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous run of mine
Other Heating: Propane Kerosene
Location: Armstrong County

Post Mon. Mar. 20, 2017 6:14 pm

I don't want to be convinced it was the coal furnace but, maybe, Paul's right.
If it's the furnace, that makes me a little nervous.

There was a lot of unburned coal which would seem par for the course since I only tended a couple hours before.
For the last few days, I have been putting a LOT of coal on.
I'm testing Ky Speedracer's method again and you guys have been telling me to use a lot more coal.

I had it level and full from front to back to the top of the bricks.
When I left, I didn't have as good a fire as I would have liked but it was relatively warm outside so I figured it wouldn't burn out.
Ky says to get a blow torch before opening the secondary
Both the primary and secondary were wide open.
I've been leaving the MPD open per Ky.

I am getting longer burn times between tendings.
I put 6 shovels on at 7 AM today and another 6 at 12:45 PM.
Just came back up and it will be several hours before I need to do anything.
Ideally, I don't have to add until 10:30 PM so and it will keep overnight easily
I have a hate/sort of like with my Hotblast

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Sunny Boy
Member
Posts: 12627
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace
Location: Central NY

Post Tue. Mar. 21, 2017 10:04 am

When you can explain to me how no one smelled stove exhaust when the CO monitor was going off, or after, or even just how all those other gases that makeup burning coal exhaust stink could stay in the stove system and only carbon monoxide came out, then I might believe your CO monitors are ok.

In the meantime, considering how often false alarms with CO detectors get reported, and with the lack of any other evidence to support an actual leak - I have to think that the evidence points to that you have two of the same model of faulty detectors. As I said, mass production can make mass mistakes, not eliminates them just because you think the odds are against more than one being wrong. If that view were correct, then there never would be a need for recalls of large quantities of faulty products.

And, detectors that can cry wolf can be just as bad as ones that don't work at all. You may want to rethink how you view those two detectors as providing safety for your family. ;)

Paul
Last edited by Sunny Boy on Tue. Mar. 21, 2017 10:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
So many stoves - so few chimneys. I must be coal-stone crazy.

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CoalHeat
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Posts: 8327
Joined: Sat. Feb. 10, 2007 9:48 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Baseburners & Antiques: Sears Signal Oak 15 & Andes Kitchen Range
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert
Location: Stillwater, New Jersey

Post Tue. Mar. 21, 2017 10:09 am

Couple weeks ago I smelled combustion in the house, CO detector was reading 35. I went down the cellar and covered the auger on the EFM back up. OOPS!

Point is I smelled the problem before the detector hit the threshold where it would sound the alarm.
Heating a circa 1832 farmhouse with a Harman Magnafire Mark I & a 1959 EFM 350 (heating DHW).
100% Oil Free!
"It's what we learn after we think we know it all that counts."

Sunny Boy
Member
Posts: 12627
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace
Location: Central NY

Post Tue. Mar. 21, 2017 10:11 am

CoalHeat wrote:Couple weeks ago I smelled combustion in the house, CO detector was reading 35. I went down the cellar and covered the auger on the EFM back up. OOPS!

Point is I smelled the problem before the detector hit the threshold where it would sound the alarm.
Exactly !!!!! The nose is a better detector.

The detector beeps are more for when you and your nose are sleeping. That's why they say to install defectors outside bed rooms, too.

Paul
So many stoves - so few chimneys. I must be coal-stone crazy.

larryfoster
Member
Posts: 1165
Joined: Fri. Nov. 21, 2014 1:02 am
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Hot Blast 1557M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous run of mine
Other Heating: Propane Kerosene
Location: Armstrong County

Post Tue. Mar. 21, 2017 10:16 am

I haven't had anymore CO incidents.
:D

I, also, tried to find anything on false positives for this unit and came up empty.
It would be more comforting to have found a cause even if it were the furnace, chimney or anything.
I realize the difficulty of nailing this down due to lack of data.

Am I correct that higher outside temperatures reduce draft?

Today will be 55 with light wind.
Tomorrow will be 30 and then the next 10 days are mostly 50s to 60.

Keep burning or call it a year?
I have a hate/sort of like with my Hotblast

larryfoster
Member
Posts: 1165
Joined: Fri. Nov. 21, 2014 1:02 am
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Hot Blast 1557M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous run of mine
Other Heating: Propane Kerosene
Location: Armstrong County

Post Tue. Mar. 21, 2017 10:19 am

Replies came in while posting.

What other battery operated units are you guys using?
I can try other models for increased vigilance.
I have a hate/sort of like with my Hotblast

User avatar
CoalHeat
Site Moderator
Posts: 8327
Joined: Sat. Feb. 10, 2007 9:48 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Baseburners & Antiques: Sears Signal Oak 15 & Andes Kitchen Range
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert
Location: Stillwater, New Jersey

Post Tue. Mar. 21, 2017 10:53 am

I use the Kidde unit with the 10 year battery.

Plus you indicate you have a manometer but don't trust it, why? Without a reliable draft gauge you have no idea what the draft is.
Heating a circa 1832 farmhouse with a Harman Magnafire Mark I & a 1959 EFM 350 (heating DHW).
100% Oil Free!
"It's what we learn after we think we know it all that counts."

larryfoster
Member
Posts: 1165
Joined: Fri. Nov. 21, 2014 1:02 am
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Hot Blast 1557M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous run of mine
Other Heating: Propane Kerosene
Location: Armstrong County

Post Tue. Mar. 21, 2017 11:44 am

Plus you indicate you have a manometer but don't trust it, why? Without a reliable draft gauge you have no idea what the draft is.
Mainly because the readings have been all over the place.
Even with clean probes.
I have zero set it quite often.
Recently, after brushing my chimney and cleaning my pipes and with fire full blast on a cool day with everything open, it barely reaches .10.
Now, after a quick and dirty pipe and chimney clean, it barely reaches .08 in the same circumstances.
I also blew out the probe with compressed air.

I, recently, put a new probe and hose on. I THINK the probe is pointing away from the furnace towards the chimney.
Maybe I should restate that.
I'm sure the probe is pointing that way but not sure if it's pointed parallel to the pipes or tilted down or up; if that makes a difference.
After the new probe was installed was when I noticed the mano moves very little.
Either it was wrong before and right now or it's wrong now.

To use your words, I don't know if it is a reliable draft gauge.

Because I'm not a very bright man, I ask dumb questions.
Before, everyone had manometers, how did they tell if they had a reliable draft?

Same thing could be asked about the CO detectors.
I am going to get some more CO detectors and use them in conjunction with my present ones.
If some of them alarm, how do I know which is correct?

In all cases I will err on the side of caution and run like a chicken with my head cut off if one alerts.
I have a hate/sort of like with my Hotblast

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freetown fred
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Posts: 21421
Joined: Thu. Dec. 31, 2009 12:33 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut
Location: Freetown,NY 13803

Post Tue. Mar. 21, 2017 1:33 pm

Don't forget to grab the wife & kids! ;)
"A people that values it's privileges above it's principals, soon loses both"--Dwight D Eisenhower

larryfoster
Member
Posts: 1165
Joined: Fri. Nov. 21, 2014 1:02 am
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Hot Blast 1557M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous run of mine
Other Heating: Propane Kerosene
Location: Armstrong County

Post Tue. Mar. 21, 2017 2:05 pm

Dogs and daughter first.
:lol:
Then wife
I have a hate/sort of like with my Hotblast

Sunny Boy
Member
Posts: 12627
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace
Location: Central NY

Post Tue. Mar. 21, 2017 2:07 pm

A sight glass mano is an extremely simple tool, therefore extremely reliable. That's why sight glass type gauges are still commonly used in industrial applications for large storage facilities and manos for the HVAC industry. As the saying goes, "If it was any simpler it couldn't work.

If it were broken it would never work properly, but if it appears to work sometimes then it's working all the time. If you are getting readings that sometimes don't look correct and at other times seem normal, it is far, far, more likely the inconsistency is being caused by whatever is making the draft inconsistent, not the mano that is just showing the results. And we know that your having inconstancy problems with the fire output, which we know will cause inconsistent draft strength readings.

And, we've already been through the mano's checking/testing procedure. You've corrected any possible installation problems that would cause the mano to give inaccurate readings. The only way you could get false readings caused by such a simple device as a sight-glass mano is,..
1. A leak in the hose.
2. A plugged hose.
3. The mano is not level.

And we've already eliminated them. Trust your mano and look elsewhere for the cause when you suspect the readings. Because, any continued suspicions of the mano will only confuse you further by adding questions back into the mix that have already been eliminated. That is just taking unnecessary steps backwards. ;)

Paul
So many stoves - so few chimneys. I must be coal-stone crazy.

User avatar
CoalHeat
Site Moderator
Posts: 8327
Joined: Sat. Feb. 10, 2007 9:48 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Baseburners & Antiques: Sears Signal Oak 15 & Andes Kitchen Range
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert
Location: Stillwater, New Jersey

Post Tue. Mar. 21, 2017 3:46 pm

You could always connect multiple manometers and then when they all read the same you'll know it's not the instrument. :idea:
Heating a circa 1832 farmhouse with a Harman Magnafire Mark I & a 1959 EFM 350 (heating DHW).
100% Oil Free!
"It's what we learn after we think we know it all that counts."

larryfoster
Member
Posts: 1165
Joined: Fri. Nov. 21, 2014 1:02 am
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Hot Blast 1557M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous run of mine
Other Heating: Propane Kerosene
Location: Armstrong County

Post Tue. Mar. 21, 2017 5:13 pm

Paul, I wasn't clear.
Let me try again.

When I first installed the mano. I used the factory provided line and tubing that was a good fit for that line.
Recently, I installed a different probe and line that had to be adapted by sliding a sleeve inside the new line to fit on the device.
Neither of these connections provide a snug fit.
So, I'm not sure I'm sealed or air tight.
Perhaps, that doesn't matter.

Those two different installations have provided markedly different behaviors and readings.
Which do I rely on?
I have a hate/sort of like with my Hotblast

Sunny Boy
Member
Posts: 12627
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace
Location: Central NY

Post Tue. Mar. 21, 2017 5:45 pm

Why not seal the not-snug connections with high temp RTV silicon sealer instead of wondering if they are leaking or not ? Or, at least check them for leaks by coating the connections with soapy water and see if the bubbles get sucked into the connections.

You need to make sure that mano is working properly so that you can gain consistency with your stove settings.

And you've been mentioning it's readings as part of your reports on trouble shooting feedback. Remember that It's not just you that needs that mano to be accurate,... those trying to help you are relying on those readings to help you figure out what's going on. ;)

Paul
So many stoves - so few chimneys. I must be coal-stone crazy.

larryfoster
Member
Posts: 1165
Joined: Fri. Nov. 21, 2014 1:02 am
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Hot Blast 1557M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous run of mine
Other Heating: Propane Kerosene
Location: Armstrong County

Post Tue. Mar. 21, 2017 5:56 pm

Why not seal the not-snug connections with high temp RTV silicon sealer instead of wondering if they are leaking or not ? Or, at least check them for leaks by coating the connections with soapy water and see if the bubbles get sucked into the connections.
Because I didn't think to do that.
:oops:
I have a hate/sort of like with my Hotblast

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