Outside Vs Room Primary Air and Humidity

Post Reply
 
User avatar
63roundbadge
Member
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri. May. 23, 2008 9:43 pm
Location: Lehigh Valley PA

Post by 63roundbadge » Sun. Oct. 02, 2016 3:47 pm

I did search for my answer, but I keep getting other results that deal more with keeping the coals running. I have no problem with operation at all.

I run a Alaska Kodiak hopper fed stove. I'm trying to maintain more natural humidity in the house. My primary air is sucked into the ash door from the living space and I have to constantly run a humidifier to try to keep even 25%.

Has anyone with a similar situation routed the primary intake air from outside? I would think this would then keep my living space air from 'going up the flue?'

If I simply run the oil baseboard water heat I don't dry the air nearly as much.

Adapting my stove would not be monumental, but once I do it there's no undoing the connection to the outside as if it never happened. I need to know this will slow the humidity loss and if it is worth it?

 
User avatar
hotblast1357
Member
Posts: 5657
Joined: Mon. Mar. 10, 2014 10:06 pm
Location: Peasleeville NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1984 Eshland S260 coal gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh anthracite pea
Other Heating: air source heat pump, oil furnace

Post by hotblast1357 » Sun. Oct. 02, 2016 4:10 pm

Your humidity is not "going up the chimney"...

Your house is dry due to you running a stove, a large mass of heat like that dries the air out.

There is nothing you can do besides run a humidifier.

 
User avatar
SWPaDon
Member
Posts: 9857
Joined: Sun. Nov. 24, 2013 12:05 pm
Location: Southwest Pa.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1600M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous
Other Heating: Oil furnace

Post by SWPaDon » Sun. Oct. 02, 2016 4:30 pm

Can you put a pan of water on top of your stove? As it evaporates it will add moisture to the air.

 
User avatar
deepwoods
Member
Posts: 616
Joined: Fri. Aug. 29, 2008 10:21 am
Location: north central pa.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & DS Machine Newstyle Champion
Coal Size/Type: nut (so far)
Other Heating: Ruud propane forced air system

Post by deepwoods » Sun. Oct. 02, 2016 4:47 pm

Some of the old mid-20th century cabinet style stoves had a water tank built into them for providing humidity. Some of those older stoves were well thought out for sure!

 
User avatar
nortcan
Member
Posts: 3146
Joined: Sat. Feb. 20, 2010 3:32 pm
Location: Qc Canada

Post by nortcan » Sun. Oct. 02, 2016 5:01 pm

Usually, a house having good insulation and being air tight keeps the humidity inside of the house and also the heat. If not very air tight the drier cold air coming in the house dries the inside air and also rub the $$$$$heat. More details about the house structure are important.
Having an outside air kit for your stove may help you but every house and location differ from one to the other one. Try is the best advise.


 
User avatar
Lightning
Site Moderator
Posts: 14659
Joined: Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Olean, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: Modified AA 130
Coal Size/Type: Pea Size - Anthracite

Post by Lightning » Sun. Oct. 02, 2016 6:34 pm

The average home has an air exchange rate of 1 to 2 times per hour due to stack effect, infiltration, running Kitchen fans, bathroom fans that exhaust outside, opening and closing doors, the list goes on. Some houses that aren't very tight exchange even more. I've done a lot of homework on it lol.

My opinion, plumbing an outside air source won't make a noticeable difference. It might even make the stove less efficient since it's gotta heat up the combustion air that much more in order to use it (if it's plumbed directly to the stove). If it's not directly plumbed into the stove it's just spilling cold air into your house increasing the air exchange that's already naturally occurring.

But that's just my opinion lol

 
User avatar
coaledsweat
Site Moderator
Posts: 13763
Joined: Fri. Oct. 27, 2006 2:05 pm
Location: Guilford, Connecticut
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Post by coaledsweat » Sun. Oct. 02, 2016 6:39 pm

I go through 3-4 gallons a day in a 2200' house when it's cold.

 
User avatar
VigIIPeaBurner
Member
Posts: 2579
Joined: Fri. Jan. 11, 2008 10:49 am
Location: Pequest River Valley, Warren Co NJ
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker(down)
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Casting Vigilant II 2310
Other Heating: #2 Oil Furnace

Post by VigIIPeaBurner » Sun. Oct. 02, 2016 6:40 pm

To a point your humidity from you humidifier is going up the chimney. Warm air can hold more humidity than cold air. As your stove draws combustion air to satisfy heat demand, the air goes up the chimney. If you have a leaky house, your heat demand it greater as nortcan suggests. Therefore the stove demands more combustion air. Therefore more humidified combustion air 'goes up the chimney'.
  • Can warm air hold more water vapor than cold air?
  • Relative humidity is the amount of water vapor in the air in comparison to what the air can hold. A relative humidity of 40 percent means that the air is only 40 percent saturated with moisture and can hold more water vapor.
    In general, for each 20 F decrease in temperature, the relative humidity doubles. This means that as the temperature goes up, the relative humidity decreases; in other words, with the same amount of water vapor, cold air is more saturated than warm air.

 
User avatar
VigIIPeaBurner
Member
Posts: 2579
Joined: Fri. Jan. 11, 2008 10:49 am
Location: Pequest River Valley, Warren Co NJ
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker(down)
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Casting Vigilant II 2310
Other Heating: #2 Oil Furnace

Post by VigIIPeaBurner » Sun. Oct. 02, 2016 6:42 pm

coaledsweat wrote:I go through 3-4 gallons a day in a 2200' house when it's cold.
My use is in that range. I use 4-5 gpd for ~ 3,000 ft^2 of 1998 construction.

 
User avatar
Lightning
Site Moderator
Posts: 14659
Joined: Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Olean, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: Modified AA 130
Coal Size/Type: Pea Size - Anthracite

Post by Lightning » Sun. Oct. 02, 2016 6:57 pm

True that moist air feels warmer than dry air but I'd be careful with that too. A house that's too moist all winter long can develop a huge mold problem in the upper levels and attic since stack effect is forcing warm air out at the top and drawing cold dry air in at the bottom. I had a friend with this problem. Cost him thousands to fix the mold in his attic because his wife had to keep the house so moist.

I like the dry in the winter, I don't use any humidifiers. Although the cats don't like the static lol. As a matter of fact it's suggested to run the house humidity level lower as it gets colder outside. For example, during bitter cold you should only run 25-30% humidity in the house so you don't have moisture related problems.


 
User avatar
63roundbadge
Member
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri. May. 23, 2008 9:43 pm
Location: Lehigh Valley PA

Post by 63roundbadge » Sun. Oct. 02, 2016 6:59 pm

Thanks to all. This is what I needed to see.

Seems like I'm using an equal amount of water for my 2500 sq. ft. single floor house. I thought maybe that was excessive, but now I see that it is not.

I had 16 recessed lights in the ceilings with total coverage trim rings that still had over a square foot total of leakage to the attic. It adds up. I replaced them with flush fitting FEIT LED lights two months ago. They are totally sealed to the ceiling, this should help. I've since noticed humidity not increasing overnight since (all other things equal with the A/C running).

When my stove is running at its peak, my primary air is wide open and my MPD is totally closed. So my total intake is pretty much whatever leaks around/through the 6" MPD plate to the 6" black pipe wall.

So, I guess I'll just keep filling the humidifiers and enjoy. Thanks again to all for your opinions/advice.

 
User avatar
coaledsweat
Site Moderator
Posts: 13763
Joined: Fri. Oct. 27, 2006 2:05 pm
Location: Guilford, Connecticut
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Post by coaledsweat » Sun. Oct. 02, 2016 7:31 pm

My house is an '80 model with crap windows so I'm going through more because of that. You really need to adjust your interior humidity on a scale that relates to the outside air temperature, I otherwise, your house kind of takes a beating.

 
User avatar
63roundbadge
Member
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri. May. 23, 2008 9:43 pm
Location: Lehigh Valley PA

Post by 63roundbadge » Sun. Oct. 02, 2016 8:10 pm

Lightning wrote:True that moist air feels warmer than dry air but I'd be careful with that too. A house that's too moist all winter long can develop a huge mold problem in the upper levels and attic since stack effect is forcing warm air out at the top and drawing cold dry air in at the bottom. I had a friend with this problem. Cost him thousands to fix the mold in his attic because his wife had to keep the house so moist.

I like the dry in the winter, I don't use any humidifiers. Although the cats don't like the static lol. As a matter of fact it's suggested to run the house humidity level lower as it gets colder outside. For example, during bitter cold you should only run 25-30% humidity in the house so you don't have moisture related problems.
OH-another addition-I never have the humidity high enough to see condensation on any windows on the coldest/windiest days. To me this is too humid if there is any moisture on the glass.

 
User avatar
VigIIPeaBurner
Member
Posts: 2579
Joined: Fri. Jan. 11, 2008 10:49 am
Location: Pequest River Valley, Warren Co NJ
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker(down)
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Casting Vigilant II 2310
Other Heating: #2 Oil Furnace

Post by VigIIPeaBurner » Sun. Oct. 02, 2016 8:58 pm

coaledsweat wrote:8< .... You really need to adjust your interior humidity on a scale that relates to the outside air temperature, I otherwise, your house kind of takes a beating.
Very important. You don't want to see condensate freezing on the window.

Proper Indoor Humidity
  • +40 45%
    +30 40%
    +20 35%
    +10 30%
    0 25%
    -10 23%
    -20 15%

Post Reply

Return to “Hand Fired Coal Stoves & Furnaces Using Anthracite”