Reducing Grate Area for Spring Burning

 
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SemperFi
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Post by SemperFi » Fri. Sep. 12, 2008 7:35 pm

Devil505, The Harman tlc should have 2 shaker grates, can you disconnect the back grate and just let ashes build up on it. My Keystoker hand fed manual says to do this to go from 90k to 70k. Bet it could work on the harmon. Let me know what you think.

 
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Post by Devil505 » Fri. Sep. 12, 2008 7:47 pm

SemperFi wrote:Devil505, The Harman tlc should have 2 shaker grates, can you disconnect the back grate and just let ashes build up on it
I don't want to fool with the linkage connecting the 2 shaker grates. I was thinking of just reducing the size of the firebox with a few bricks & then just not using the shaker mechanism & poking from underneath....To much work! :down:
I've never run the stove with a reduced coal load so I'll give it a try to see if it's worth it. I'm mainly retired now so I'm around to play with it! :)

 
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Post by VigIIPeaBurner » Fri. Sep. 12, 2008 9:32 pm

Devil505 wrote:I'm going to try this experiment the first cool night when I just want a small, cooler fire: I'm going to just fill my firebox up about 1/3rd of the normal height.
Devil505, that’s what I did for a few years. In the mornings, I eventually tried filling on an angle; low to just cover the grates on one side and all the way to the top on the opposite side. This would yield a full width fire area in the morning and as the fire climbed thru the pile, the burn width gets smaller as the day gets warmer. Ash keeps the grates covered so little draft is lost as the day warms. At night I'd place a few small shovels atop the burn and rake out the fire to cover the bottom after it got going. It works best for me when it’s in the 40s at night and 50s during the day. If I tried this in warmer weather, I'd loose the draft when I shook and had a nearly impossible time keeping a small fire.

Since I reduced the fire box with the brick, the fire is so small that it's good for the nights in the 50s and days in mid 60s. I plan on pulling the bricks from one side as the weather cools, then all of them as it gets even cooler. At that point, I'll do the angled fill procedure again until it stays in the 40s and then it's filler' up time again :D

 
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Post by SemperFi » Fri. Sep. 12, 2008 9:40 pm

Devil505, what if you were to take fire brick and bolt it right to the back grate with stainles bolts. The mechanism would still function normaly but not allow a fire in the back. Just a crazy idea.


 
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Post by charlesosborne2002 » Mon. Jul. 30, 2018 6:54 pm

You are the one I need to talk to--I was thinking of burning wood in Vig II (not used yet) during milder weather, but I get little or no comment about wood (and some wild guesses) when I ask about it. When burning wood, anything to keep in mind? I was wondering if the plate that reduces air for bit coal might be better with wood?
nuthead wrote:
Sun. Sep. 07, 2008 6:15 am
just burn wood.
i have the same stove, I burn wood from mid oct to dec 1 and than about 3rd wk of april or when the coal runs out, that's why I have a cord of wood every year.

 
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Post by charlesosborne2002 » Sat. Sep. 21, 2019 1:23 pm

VigIIPeaBurner wrote:
Tue. Jun. 10, 2008 10:47 am
Okay, I'm a confirmed kunkel head. Who else would be thinking about burning coal when it's supposed to be a record 97 F day here in NW NJ. Maybe it's because I got the central air working yesterday and now it's nice and cool in here sitting next to the stove :P Damn mouse built a huge nest in the service box of the AC compressor, chewed the insulation off the wires and their urine dissolved the thermostat wire away. Spent a few hours rewiring and I'm back in the cool.

I did work this out back in mid May. Just got around to putting the clips together into a WMA file. I think I remember reading in Richard's info that WMA is supported and if I'm wrong, I'll pull it down. If you watch it, don't view it maximized as I didn't realize that I had the camera set at low resolution. It gets the point across. The video is shot from the front with the two doors open. The Vigilant II is a top loader (see earlier top-down shot) so the front doors are only used for maintenance.

The burn did work and I kept it going for a week or so before it got too hot to bother with it. The fire is so small, I never close the internal damper to keep it drafting. No CO was reported on the monitor that's along side the stove. This size fire was good for 50F nights but not big enough when it dipped closer to 40F. It's modular so I can play with the volume as needed.
I know this post is old but I keep going back to it--I think there is a newer video later. I am going to try this this year.
First question is, what is the plate for? I see that the grates move fine under the firebricks (they weigh less than coal I think) with no plate. It seems to me the grates move to and fro--not up and down except that half of them are higher up. Is the purpose to protect the bricks from the frequent action of the grates?

Second, with or without a plate, the front of the grates remains uncovered. This lets some air from the primary chamber up into the firebox. Apparently, this feeds the blue flames--but with half the coal, is this giving them extra air and reducing the draft (just when we do not want that in warm weather)? Or is the effect negligible?

Third, does the plate (or the bottom brick) go all the way to the standard brick with the triangle removed, or does it stop short and leave a space between the new bricks and the old? I think if the top brick is against the side wall bricks, there is no fear of air leaks or stuff falling in...

Last, if somebody made a hollow metal triangle to replace the brick triangle (filled with refractory cement), would that solve the problem?

 
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Post by Sunny Boy » Sun. Sep. 22, 2019 1:46 pm

To answer pert of your questions, antique coal ranges used a plate over the grates when burning wood. It was called a "Summer plate". Since wood ash can be easily moved around to the holes with a fire poker there's no need to shake the grates.

The plate had smaller openings that served two purposes. First is that it does a better job of supporting a bed of wood embers than most coal grates do. Second, the smaller openings in the plate also help restrict air flow from below allowing better control of the wood fire by using the secondary air damper more and less primary air damper opening. Feeding the bulk of the air in over the top of a wood fire also burns off more creosote to help reduce creosote buildup in the chimney.

For best steady heat output, coal burns from the bottom up, wood burns from the top down.

Paul

 
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Post by Hoytman » Mon. Sep. 23, 2019 6:11 pm

I wonder if my 354 came with a plate originally since it was made in 1998 when they advertised them for wood and coal?


 
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Post by ddahlgren » Tue. Sep. 24, 2019 1:27 pm

For the coal experts and old hands at it a question or possible thought. If you cut the grate area by cutting the pot size 50% it would mean to me you have cut the amount of coal by 50% too. Would this mean you might end up with a 50% shorter burn time before tending? If yes that could make you the champ at the dump and relight game and might as well burn wood.

 
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Post by Hoytman » Tue. Sep. 24, 2019 8:50 pm

Hoytman wrote:
Mon. Sep. 23, 2019 6:11 pm
I wonder if my 354 came with a plate originally since it was made in 1998 when they advertised them for wood and coal?
I called and asked today. No...did not come with a wood burning plate.

I would think a plate or bricks laid on top of the grates would protect them from heat and warping.

 
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Post by Sunny Boy » Tue. Sep. 24, 2019 9:37 pm

ddahlgren wrote:
Tue. Sep. 24, 2019 1:27 pm
For the coal experts and old hands at it a question or possible thought. If you cut the grate area by cutting the pot size 50% it would mean to me you have cut the amount of coal by 50% too. Would this mean you might end up with a 50% shorter burn time before tending? If yes that could make you the champ at the dump and relight game and might as well burn wood.
It might actually not burn as long as a full firebox ? By reducing the firebed in proportion to the stove pipe cross section, the exhaust volume is also reduced. And that will reduce the draft strength. As you know, it's that hot exhaust gas volume that makes the draft that keeps the fire from slowly dying out. Reduce the volume and it reduces the draft.

Kinda like ending up with too large a turbo and exhaust system because you switched to a much smaller engine size. The turbo can't feed the motor as much because the exhaust gas volume isn't enough to drive the turbo enough to make enough exhaust gas volume... etc. ;)

The trick is to reduce the firebox size and thus the heat output, but keep the depth of the firebed as deep as possible so as to get the most complete combustion and heat out of that reduced volume of firebed. But even at that, if you reduce the firebed size too much it may not stay burning because the draft gets weaker and weaker. :roll:

Paul

 
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Post by Rich W. » Sun. Oct. 13, 2019 8:42 pm

I solved this problem by not shaking! Huh? That’s right...I clear the ashes in the center third of my Vigilant fire bed by poking from below. I leave the outside two thirds alone, and let the ash build up choke that part of the fire. I load it up in the usual manner, and create a deep, narrow fire. I get reduced heat output, but still get a long burn. Sometimes the burn area takes a conical shape, which is fine. My chimney draws just fine in these conditions.

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