Warm Morning 617a

Modern and vintage hand fired coal stove are similar to a wood stove and in some cases can burn either. They need to be regulated and fed by hand usually every 12 to 24 hours depending on your usage. They require no power to operate making them ideal for rural settings with long power outages.
Sunny Boy
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Posts: 12627
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Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace
Location: Central NY

Post Sat. Aug. 15, 2015 1:42 pm

JJ,

Do you ever get power outages in winter ? If so, the warm morning will keep ya warmer than the boiler. ;)
Paul
So many stoves - so few chimneys. I must be coal-stone crazy.

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johnjoseph
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
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Location: Aroostook County, Maine

Post Sat. Aug. 15, 2015 1:50 pm

Sunny Boy wrote:JJ,

Do you ever get power outages in winter ? If so, the warm morning will keep ya warmer than the boiler. ;)
Paul
Very infrequently do we loose power...maybe 2 times a winter for a few hours....we loose power more in the summer due to thunderstorms....you have a good point though! My home is only ten years old and the warm morning would probably heat the whole house fairly easy as the house is only 1600 square feet. I vaulted ceiling in the living room though and curious if it would be an issue to put the chimney through. I would also need to install some sort of corner hearth.
"What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men." Cool Hand Luke is a 1967 American prison drama film

Sunny Boy
Member
Posts: 12627
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace
Location: Central NY

Post Sat. Aug. 15, 2015 2:36 pm

johnjoseph wrote:
Sunny Boy wrote:JJ,

Do you ever get power outages in winter ? If so, the warm morning will keep ya warmer than the boiler. ;)
Paul
Very infrequently do we loose power...maybe 2 times a winter for a few hours....we loose power more in the summer due to thunderstorms....you have a good point though! My home is only ten years old and the warm morning would probably heat the whole house fairly easy as the house is only 1600 square feet. I vaulted ceiling in the living room though and curious if it would be an issue to put the chimney through. I would also need to install some sort of corner hearth.
Hearth boards, and/or, sheet metal spaced off the wall, are a quick and easy set up. A long indoor pipe will help keep that much more heat indoors. You might find that installing two MPD's, one down very near the stove, helps keep the heat down lower in the stove, stack, and the room ????

And if the outage goes on for awhile and the stove prevents frozen pipes, it'll pay for itself just in plumber costs saved. Been there. After mine froze up, it cost me many hundreds of dollars just for new copper piping to redo the water system by myself. Hate to think what it would have cost if I had to pay a plumber to do all that. Certainly more than the coal range cost, plus a winter's worth of coal ! :shock:

It's no fun living in a house in winter without water where and when ya need it ! Especially so for a wife and kids !!!!

Paul
So many stoves - so few chimneys. I must be coal-stone crazy.

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johnjoseph
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
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Post Sun. Aug. 16, 2015 5:14 pm

Thanks Paul. ...I'm curious if I should take this stove completely apart and do a rebuild before I install. ..my gut tells me yes
"What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men." Cool Hand Luke is a 1967 American prison drama film

Sunny Boy
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Posts: 12627
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace
Location: Central NY

Post Sun. Aug. 16, 2015 5:36 pm

johnjoseph wrote:Thanks Paul. ...I'm curious if I should take this stove completely apart and do a rebuild before I install. ..my gut tells me yes
JJ, I can only answer that with more questions. And not to say that gut feelings should be discounted out of hand, ....but,

1. Guts aside, does it need complete rebuilding? Have you looked it over very carefully inside and out and found things that need fixing ?

2. If #1is a yes, can you properly (safely) rebuild it all and get it back together, once you have taken it apart ?

If #1 is a yes, and #2 is a question, keep in mind that there are at least a couple of guys on here who could take that Warm Morning apart and put it back together one-handed and with their eyes closed. One is Steve (Kingcoal) - another would be John (Buck).

Paul
So many stoves - so few chimneys. I must be coal-stone crazy.

KingCoal
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Posts: 3165
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 3-Locke Warm Morning #120, 1-Locke Warm Morning #524B
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner 1- Crawford #40 BB
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none
Location: Elkhart county, IN.

Post Sun. Aug. 16, 2015 5:57 pm

i was working on a reply while SunnyBoy was posting his :lol:

the 617 A is a VERY simple stove. what you have is an old square metal "saltine cracker" can on end with bricks in it and 2 doors and a flue exit that can be flipped for either top or rear discharge.

to make it as simple as possible, get it hooked to a flue and start a smallish fire in it, then go around all the seams between the sheet metal barrel and the cast iron parts with smoke and see if it draws in anywhere.

if not, you're good to go. if so, a dab of stove cement will take care of it.

post up some pics that show us the over condition, esp. joining areas.

steve
" all of learning is the understanding of relationships" George Washington Carver

"the true measure of a man is the way he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good" Samuel Johnson

"if it was any simpler, it wouldn't work " unknown engineer

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johnjoseph
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Post Sun. Aug. 16, 2015 6:57 pm

This is what I have for pictures
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"What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men." Cool Hand Luke is a 1967 American prison drama film

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johnjoseph
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Post Sun. Aug. 16, 2015 6:59 pm

Grates look good...bricks need replacing. ..best guess at this point
"What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men." Cool Hand Luke is a 1967 American prison drama film

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KingCoal
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Posts: 3165
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 3-Locke Warm Morning #120, 1-Locke Warm Morning #524B
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner 1- Crawford #40 BB
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none
Location: Elkhart county, IN.

Post Sun. Aug. 16, 2015 8:09 pm

here's some pics from my 617 A for reference.
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these are the 3 types of bricks in your stove, there are 4 of the long white looking ones in the back ground , they lay horizontally under the rest of the bricks.
IMG_1657.gif
in this pic you can see how they are arranged and that there are 2 steel "plates" that rest on top of the "side" bricks to protect the otherwise exposed top of the barrel. do you have these ? your bottom most bricks are seriously eroded and it looks like at least 4 of your corner bricks should be replaced. these are all still available though expensive. i'll get you a link.
" all of learning is the understanding of relationships" George Washington Carver

"the true measure of a man is the way he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good" Samuel Johnson

"if it was any simpler, it wouldn't work " unknown engineer

KingCoal
Member
Posts: 3165
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 3-Locke Warm Morning #120, 1-Locke Warm Morning #524B
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner 1- Crawford #40 BB
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none
Location: Elkhart county, IN.

Post Sun. Aug. 16, 2015 8:43 pm

here's a link for the 2 types of rectangular bricks.

http://www.woodmanspartsplus.com/Search.aspx?key= ... ning%20617

still looking for my link to the corner bricks.
" all of learning is the understanding of relationships" George Washington Carver

"the true measure of a man is the way he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good" Samuel Johnson

"if it was any simpler, it wouldn't work " unknown engineer

KingCoal
Member
Posts: 3165
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 3-Locke Warm Morning #120, 1-Locke Warm Morning #524B
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner 1- Crawford #40 BB
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none
Location: Elkhart county, IN.

Post Mon. Aug. 17, 2015 8:20 am

here's a link for the correct corner brick for your stove.

on this page you will be looking for the listing for WM5289R

http://www.woodinsert.com/products.php?cat=80

these 2 pages will also be helpful down the road

http://a1stoves.com/free/WarmMorningpartslist1.jpg

http://a1stoves.com/free/WarmMorningpartslist2.jpg
Last edited by KingCoal on Mon. Aug. 17, 2015 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
" all of learning is the understanding of relationships" George Washington Carver

"the true measure of a man is the way he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good" Samuel Johnson

"if it was any simpler, it wouldn't work " unknown engineer

Sunny Boy
Member
Posts: 12627
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace
Location: Central NY

Post Mon. Aug. 17, 2015 8:58 am

Steve,
If JJ only burns anthracite, and not bit coal, in that Warm Morning, does he need to have those custom made bricks, or can he just brick up the insides with the much less expensive, common fire brick available from places like Lowes ?

Plus, not having those large corner bricks would add more coal holding capacity.

Paul
So many stoves - so few chimneys. I must be coal-stone crazy.

KingCoal
Member
Posts: 3165
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 3-Locke Warm Morning #120, 1-Locke Warm Morning #524B
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner 1- Crawford #40 BB
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none
Location: Elkhart county, IN.

Post Mon. Aug. 17, 2015 9:22 am

i can't make a hard and fast comment on that Paul but, if John / Buck47 happens to spot this thread he might have some input there.

i just don't know how much diff. it would make in "draw" thru the fire bed. you would think it would strengthen it since some of the primary air is no longer getting an easy pass up the sides of the fire pot ?

steve
" all of learning is the understanding of relationships" George Washington Carver

"the true measure of a man is the way he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good" Samuel Johnson

"if it was any simpler, it wouldn't work " unknown engineer

Sunny Boy
Member
Posts: 12627
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace
Location: Central NY

Post Mon. Aug. 17, 2015 10:22 am

Thanks Steve.

It didn't occur to me that there might also be an increase in through-the-firebed draft. Certainly an added plus if it does.

I was just looking at the expense of replacing the unique shaped firebricks that the Warm Morning needs to burn bit coal. If they aren't needed for anthracite, just buying common fire bricks would be a substantial savings .

Plus, an increase in coal capacity by not having to use those bulky corner bricks.

Paul
So many stoves - so few chimneys. I must be coal-stone crazy.

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deepwoods
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & DS Machine Newstyle Champion
Coal Size/Type: nut (so far)
Other Heating: Ruud propane forced air system
Location: north central pa.

Post Mon. Aug. 17, 2015 11:54 am

By seeing the new corner bricks in place I feel more complete combustion of coal would take place due to keeping the coal crowded inward toward those round grates. It has been stated many times how the old stove builders preferred a round firepot for complete burning of coal. Those corner bricks form a near round firepot. Just my 2C.
Still looking for a decent Locke/Warm Morning. Have e-mailed 3 sellers and received NO response. I guess show & tell is not an honored practice for selling old used stoves but I would bet many have been rode hard and put away wet.

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