Chronicles of the Clayton

Modern and vintage hand fired coal stove are similar to a wood stove and in some cases can burn either. They need to be regulated and fed by hand usually every 12 to 24 hours depending on your usage. They require no power to operate making them ideal for rural settings with long power outages.
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Lightning
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Posts: 8300
Joined: Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 9:51 am
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Overmodified/Bored out Clayton 1537
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Awesome Size
Location: Olean, NY

Post Wed. Jan. 25, 2017 11:50 am

Wow you guys are reading my mind. I've struggled with thinking about ways to make more openings at the bottom of the fuel bed. Your ideas are very good. What's been stopping me from doing such a thing is the thought of weakening something at the wrong place and having it fail while I need it the most. I love the idea of getting some more holes in the grates and frames. Possibly 3/8 inch drill bit. They'd have to be in just the right places so they wouldn't weaken the structure. I'm not confident I know where those places are.

The next time it crosses my mind I'll put up a pic of the grate with some possible locations for holes marked on it. You guys can help me with some guidance on that. Thank you for the suggestions. :)

Here's another thing that I've considered that's even a little more radical. A dowel of some kind etched with slots laying on each side of the frames. From the ash door, be able to access these dowels to rotate them to nudge ash that collects between the frame and bricks towards the grates. Yeah I know, that one is a little ways out there lol.

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Ky Speedracer
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Posts: 440
Joined: Sun. Dec. 21, 2014 9:38 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Florence HotBlast NO.68 & Potbelly
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: HotBlast 1557M
Coal Size/Type: Ky Lump & Anthracite Nut
Other Heating: Oil
Location: Middletown, Kentucky

Post Wed. Jan. 25, 2017 12:00 pm

Something like this?

What did you do at the top? is it open? And, what's going on at the bottom with the tabs on each side?

Going into a couple of meetings...I'll check back in later today.
Attachments
diverter door 1.jpg
diverter2.jpg

Sunny Boy
Member
Posts: 12627
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace
Location: Central NY

Post Wed. Jan. 25, 2017 12:04 pm

Lightning wrote:Wow you guys are reading my mind. I've struggled with thinking about ways to make more openings at the bottom of the fuel bed. Your ideas are very good. What's been stopping me from doing such a thing is the thought of weakening something at the wrong place and having it fail while I need it the most. I love the idea of getting some more holes in the grates and frames. Possibly 3/8 inch drill bit. They'd have to be in just the right places so they wouldn't weaken the structure. I'm not confident I know where those places are.

The next time it crosses my mind I'll put up a pic of the grate with some possible locations for holes marked on it. You guys can help me with some guidance on that. Thank you for the suggestions. :)

Here's another thing that I've considered that's even a little more radical. A dowel of some kind etched with slots laying on each side of the frames. From the ash door, be able to access these dowels to rotate them to nudge ash that collects between the frame and bricks towards the grates. Yeah I know, that one is a little ways out there lol.
Scott is an aircraft mechanic and aircraft use a lot of "lightening holes". :D There are some rules to follow and I think he can give you some help where best to drill.

Paul
So many stoves - so few chimneys. I must be coal-stone crazy.

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Lightning
Member
Posts: 8300
Joined: Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 9:51 am
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Overmodified/Bored out Clayton 1537
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Awesome Size
Location: Olean, NY

Post Wed. Jan. 25, 2017 2:20 pm

Ky Speedracer wrote:Something like this?What did you do at the top? is it open? And, what's going on at the bottom with the tabs on each side?
Wow, nice work on those drawings! Is that CAD?

I attached a small piece of 2x8 inch plate steel at the top (for a cap), it is NOT open. For the bottom I just ran a piece of C channel bolted to the front plate of the box. It's purpose was to force the exiting gases to enter the diverter from the 2x3 inch openings on each side instead of them being pulled from the top of the coal bed directly. I've since learned that it is not needed since air is never pulled, its not possible. Gases can only be pushed, they are pushed by areas of higher pressure entering the stove at the combustion air sorces. A lesson I learned from member SunnyBoy (Paul) but never fully understood till I saw it in action. That's an interesting story too, it was by accident that a small piece of wood amongst the fresh coal was smoldering and I watched the path that the smoke took.

If I were to modify the diverter in any way, I would remove the C channel across the bottom and extend the sides right down to the bottom of the front plate. The gases would then enter the 2x8 inch opening at bottom of the diverter.

For more pictures and commentary here is the thread about it -

Direct / Indirect Exhaust Diverter

Thanks for your interest partner :)

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joeq
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Posts: 3981
Joined: Sat. Feb. 11, 2012 11:53 am
Hand Fed Coal Stove: G111, Southard Robertson
Stove/Furnace Make: Thermopride
Stove/Furnace Model: oil fired
Location: Northern CT

Post Wed. Jan. 25, 2017 5:19 pm

Wow! I wonder if the Clayton design engineers are following this thread. They could pick up some good pointers from yous guys.
Hey Lee, I also have to compliment you on your photo posting modifying picture on the previous page, that looks like a 4 bbl carburetor. A "Quad" picture-rama. Getting pretty advanced don't-cha-know? :)
PS. Do you have a BB furnace, with that back deflector?
I got coal in my Christmas stocking. (Yey!)
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Ky Speedracer
Member
Posts: 440
Joined: Sun. Dec. 21, 2014 9:38 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Florence HotBlast NO.68 & Potbelly
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: HotBlast 1557M
Coal Size/Type: Ky Lump & Anthracite Nut
Other Heating: Oil
Location: Middletown, Kentucky

Post Thu. Jan. 26, 2017 12:48 pm

Lightning wrote: Wow, nice work on those drawings! Is that CAD?
Nope. It's a program called SketchUp. I think you can download a free version here http://www.sketchup.com/ . It's not that hard to use. Plenty of youtube vids out there that you can watch to get you going with it.

I'd like to make something similar to this but I have a couple of challenges I would need to deal with.

First - I put my water coil in from the left side of the stove. It runs across the back above the liner (you can see it in the first pic below). Basically, it runs across right in the middle of where your diverter is. That can be relocated without a lot of trouble. Two new holes in the back and a couple of patch plates on the side and I can locate it so it runs down the left side like yours.

Second - My stove has a draft inducer port on the rear (It can be seen in the second photo). It can be sealed up and probably would work fine but I actually use this to add secondary air to the back of my fire bed when I'm burning bit.

After reviewing the first picture I noticed you can see the bright flame coming up from the rear liner. This picture was taken last year when I first installed the secondary burn tubes. I didn't have the rear liner sealed up very well. At that time obviously primary air was coming up through the rear liner.
The blow torch look coming in from the sides are from the secondary burn tubes I installed (see bottom pic). They are fascinating to watch after ignition with ant coal (which was what I was using in this burn).
With bit coal they turn the entire fire box into a giant fire ball. I wish there was an easy way for Larry to burn hard with a bunch of secondary air. It sure eliminates a huge amount of soot from the burn.
But to be fair, his bit coal may be completely different than mine.
Sorry, I'll leave that for another thread...
Attachments
fire5.jpg
20150105_234058972_iOS.jpg
burn tubes 4.jpg

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joeq
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Posts: 3981
Joined: Sat. Feb. 11, 2012 11:53 am
Hand Fed Coal Stove: G111, Southard Robertson
Stove/Furnace Make: Thermopride
Stove/Furnace Model: oil fired
Location: Northern CT

Post Thu. Jan. 26, 2017 4:19 pm

Nice photos, especially the top one burning. Crystal clear. :up:
(No TOTP!) :lol:
I got coal in my Christmas stocking. (Yey!)
http://nepacrossroads.com/about36489.html

Sunny Boy
Member
Posts: 12627
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace
Location: Central NY

Post Thu. Jan. 26, 2017 4:41 pm

Nice.

The volume and flame color off the secondary tubes shows that they are adding a lot of heat,.... fuel that may have been wasted before they were installed.

Too bad the stove makers don't catch on to how affective that idea is. They knew about it over 100 years ago, but it seems they forgot it somewhere along the line.

Paul
So many stoves - so few chimneys. I must be coal-stone crazy.

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corey
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Posts: 814
Joined: Fri. Nov. 14, 2014 11:14 am
Hand Fed Coal Stove: USS Ashley coal stove
Coal Size/Type: Eastern KY bituminous
Location: Southwest VA

Post Fri. Jan. 27, 2017 10:35 am

Sunny Boy wrote:Nice.

The volume and flame color off the secondary tubes shows that they are adding a lot of heat,.... fuel that may have been wasted before they were installed.

Too bad the stove makers don't catch on to how affective that idea is. They knew about it over 100 years ago, but it seems they forgot it somewhere along the line.

Paul
The EPA wood stoves did catch on to the idea. Mine has 3 rows of burn tubes. I think it would be great if they made coals like that but with shut off valves on the tubes.

Sunny Boy
Member
Posts: 12627
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace
Location: Central NY

Post Fri. Jan. 27, 2017 11:15 am

corey wrote:
Sunny Boy wrote:Nice.

The volume and flame color off the secondary tubes shows that they are adding a lot of heat,.... fuel that may have been wasted before they were installed.

Too bad the stove makers don't catch on to how affective that idea is. They knew about it over 100 years ago, but it seems they forgot it somewhere along the line.

Paul
The EPA wood stoves did catch on to the idea. Mine has 3 rows of burn tubes. I think it would be great if they made coals like that but with shut off valves on the tubes.
I forgot that. I should have clarified the companies that are making modern coal stoves.

Stoves like Lightnings and KY's have a form of secondary air feed, but it seems more of an "after thought". It's distribution of air seems marginal and more designed for cost than function. To me that's evidenced by how both their added secondary tubes are showing a more even burning of volatiles over the firebed and how that is being accomplished much sooner while that heat is further upstream within the stove's flue gas heat pathway.

Paul
So many stoves - so few chimneys. I must be coal-stone crazy.

User avatar
Lightning
Member
Posts: 8300
Joined: Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 9:51 am
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Overmodified/Bored out Clayton 1537
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Awesome Size
Location: Olean, NY

Post Sun. Mar. 05, 2017 1:13 pm

So, here we are about 2/3s thru the coal burning season! All has been well with the Clayton so far. I really enjoy the stove size coal for its speedy recovery (usually 15 minutes) and little puff back potential. With the nut size my usual routine was to leave the load door cracked a smidgen to keep the volatiles diluted. But with the stove size I can pile it high and close her up, let it recover with the ash door open and done.

After reviewing my tending records I counted only 20 days so far that the furnace got tended twice a day, the rest all once a day. I again attribute the thermostat controlled actuator for automatic primary air control to the ease of a flat 74-75 degrees in the house between tendings. If and when I replace the Clayton with an upgraded appliance this will absolutely be employed.

Also, I was hoping to clean out my coal bin this year. I have a few layers banked up on one side from prior year's left overs. That ain't gonna happen. There's no way I'll burn all of what's left. I suppose that's not a bad thing lol.

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joeq
Member
Posts: 3981
Joined: Sat. Feb. 11, 2012 11:53 am
Hand Fed Coal Stove: G111, Southard Robertson
Stove/Furnace Make: Thermopride
Stove/Furnace Model: oil fired
Location: Northern CT

Post Sun. Mar. 05, 2017 8:22 pm

Hey Lee, just call your leftovers an investment for next winter. We've been babied too long, and I'm betting next winter we get hammered. It's all in the numbers, don't cha know. And great job on your automatic T-stat. system. I'll see to it, you get the entrepreneurial award of the year. :D
I got coal in my Christmas stocking. (Yey!)
http://nepacrossroads.com/about36489.html

Sunny Boy
Member
Posts: 12627
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace
Location: Central NY

Post Sun. Mar. 05, 2017 8:56 pm

Better to have coal left over. In a way, it's better then having that as money in the bank, because unlike money, coal in the bin tends to be worth more with time, not less due to inflation. ;)

And the savings can be put back into saving more coal.

I had a few years of left over coal each year. I built up enough reserve in the bin that I didn't have to place an order one year. That gave me a chance to use that year's coal money instead to have some new parts and spares made for the stoves that improved the stove's performance.

And, that improved performance is doing a better job of heating, which is saving me even more by using much less fuel oil and electric heat.

Paul
So many stoves - so few chimneys. I must be coal-stone crazy.

User avatar
Lightning
Member
Posts: 8300
Joined: Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 9:51 am
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Overmodified/Bored out Clayton 1537
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Awesome Size
Location: Olean, NY

Post Sun. Mar. 05, 2017 9:55 pm

Thank you for the kind replies, fellas. All good points for sure! Left over coal is surely better than it's worth of money in the bank :)

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Lightning
Member
Posts: 8300
Joined: Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 9:51 am
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Overmodified/Bored out Clayton 1537
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Awesome Size
Location: Olean, NY

Post Wed. Mar. 15, 2017 7:21 pm

Just a few notes for my journal. I've really been pushing the limits of the 24 hour burns this week. Normally under these conditions I'd go to 12 hour or at least 18.

Morning-Daytime-Night
Monday 10-26-8 degrees
Tuesday 8-19-11
Today 11-19-14

The thermostat manipulates combustion air to keep the house 72-75 degrees.

When I shook down tonight I filled the ash pan three times and was left with about 2-3 inch deep bed of healthy burning coal. Got her cleaned up good! I added 81 pounds in one tending :shock: furnace went cold with 111 over the load door, the pipe temp is starting to climb now, it's been about 45 minutes since adding coal. Might be a long recovery lol. Once the pipe gets up to 300 I'll close the ash door and set it up for the burn.

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