Box Stove to Base Heater Conversion Adventure

 
Hoytman
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Location: swOH near a little town where the homes are mobile and the cars aren’t
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 354
Coal Size/Type: nut coal
Other Heating: electric, wood, oil

Post by Hoytman » Tue. Nov. 12, 2019 11:37 am

KingCoal wrote:
Mon. Nov. 11, 2019 1:26 pm
HAHA, if it was just stove buying Paulie would have lots of spare time. I don't even need a real mag I can make one out of stove pipe that will last a season and replace as needed.
That may be a better option in the long run anyway, Steve. I mean, fire does consume steel over time...with anything. A torch is but one example of that. I love your idea.
KingCoal wrote:
Mon. Nov. 11, 2019 1:26 pm
truth of the matter is the man works more on all kinds of things at all kinds of night and day than all of the seven dwarfs combined, and not just minor short hours odds and ends but BIG rigging projects like.....
I love this about Paulie. I could tell by some of his post and pictures of his projects he was like this. I really admire a man like that, with all his talents. I'm quite jealous, actually. I wish I had a guy like him closer to me as a mentor to both me and my son. Oh...I try. I'm good at just about anything I lay my hands to so long as someone shows me. I'm just not a natural like Paulie is. Gotta love that guy. It was a real pleasure for me and my son meeting him and his wife. Levi still talks about the both of them, and you too, Steve.[/quote]
KingCoal wrote:
Mon. Nov. 11, 2019 1:26 pm
move a full industrial shop from one location to another including disassemble and move the blast furnace and reassemble at the new place etc etc etc

the only guy I know who has retired 3-4 times and is still working like the mad hatter to establish his next private business, Paulie's Stove Rescue. there are few of us here with his vision, stamina and heart of gold
I think that is so cool about him. Reminds me of my grandpa. He wasn't as talented, but could handle a 24' aluminum walk board and place it on top of his truck even at age 88. He was a horse...even at his stature.

KingCoal wrote:
Mon. Nov. 11, 2019 1:26 pm
one day it will gel and we will all be the beneficiaries
Not sure what you're talking about, but it sounds interesting, so I hope you're right.

I'd love to pay him a visit sometime.

Road trip anyone? LOL!!!!!!


 
KingCoal
Member
Posts: 4837
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Location: Elkhart county, IN.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Post by KingCoal » Wed. Dec. 25, 2019 11:20 am

Merry Christmas

i'd like to ask a favor of any one having a DS 1300 circ. could i get the widest and tallest measuremnts of the front door frame ?

don't bother with it today any time will do, it's not critical.

thanks,
steve

 
rberq
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Posts: 6445
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Location: Central Maine
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300 with hopper
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Nut
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators (fuel oil); propane

Post by rberq » Wed. Dec. 25, 2019 8:33 pm

KingCoal wrote:
Wed. Dec. 25, 2019 11:20 am
i'd like to ask a favor of any one having a DS 1300 circ. could i get the widest and tallest measuremnts of the front door frame ?
Frame is 18 1/2 inches wide; and 13 inches high at the top of the arch.

 
KingCoal
Member
Posts: 4837
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Location: Elkhart county, IN.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Post by KingCoal » Wed. Dec. 25, 2019 8:47 pm

thanks rberg, these stoves must be much more of a parts bin series than i though. thats the same size as the 1400 and knowing that i'm sure the 1500 and 1600 are the same.

seems they made them all the same width and just added depth front to back to expand the capacity.

i had another adaptation in mind but i'm going to have to do some very exact measuring if there are no smaller doors.

steve

 
rberq
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Posts: 6445
Joined: Mon. Apr. 16, 2007 9:34 pm
Location: Central Maine
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300 with hopper
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Nut
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators (fuel oil); propane

Post by rberq » Thu. Dec. 26, 2019 8:57 am

KingCoal wrote:
Wed. Dec. 25, 2019 8:47 pm
thanks rberg, these stoves must be much more of a parts bin series than i though. thats the same size as the 1400 and knowing that i'm sure the 1500 and 1600 are the same.

seems they made them all the same width and just added depth front to back to expand the capacity.
I wouldn't be surprised if the hopper is identical on all of them, too. Holds about 30 pounds.
What surprised me on the doors is, DS and a dealer told me each door is individually fitted to its frame when drilling the hinge holes. So if you order a door you can't be sure it will mate properly to an existing frame. Where's Henry Ford when we need him? ;)

 
KingCoal
Member
Posts: 4837
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Location: Elkhart county, IN.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Post by KingCoal » Thu. Dec. 26, 2019 2:35 pm

i believe there may be something to the frame / door fitment issue. much easier to clamp a door to the frame and even jig drill the pin holes than set and maintain the alignment of the process on 2 separate jigs. since the stove sides are flat I could get away with just doors alone and make up my own bolt on pin lugs. time will tell.

I also agree that the hoppers are likely the same considering we have your experience to show that the 1300 hopper is cocked too far back for the internal alignments of the stove.

 
rberq
Member
Posts: 6445
Joined: Mon. Apr. 16, 2007 9:34 pm
Location: Central Maine
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300 with hopper
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Nut
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators (fuel oil); propane

Post by rberq » Thu. Dec. 26, 2019 6:28 pm

(Post deleted -- already covered elsewhere.)


 
KingCoal
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Posts: 4837
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Location: Elkhart county, IN.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Post by KingCoal » Fri. Aug. 27, 2021 8:16 pm

we all know that the only thing that stays the same is change right ?

Well before I got new windows and doors and put insulation in this old house I bought and built BIG stoves to simply overpower the cold intrusion.

Over the years I had a RiteWay 47, Herald Home Oak, a Crawford baseburner, a custom can and a half Warm Morning 120 based base heater, the subject of this thread FRANK the DS 1400 based custom base burner double heater and now a Glenwood #6.

Before all our updates nothing matched the warm morning or FRANK in this house and setting. As it stands now, even at 350* body temp the #6 is borderline big for the house

I have kept FRANK because of the outrageous ease of use that stove has, and I still have 2 WM 120’s.

I’d like to sell FRANK to a user who will take the time to learn his characteristics and be able to manage his power without burning their house down.

The 2 WM’s I’ll give to anyone that is willing to come get them.

About the first of October would be good for me cause I have all kinds of stuff going on during September. Special arrangements could possibly be made with very tight scheduling.

Hope you all are doing well and avoiding the virus

Thanks
steve

 
Hoytman
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Joined: Wed. Jan. 18, 2017 11:30 pm
Location: swOH near a little town where the homes are mobile and the cars aren’t
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 354
Coal Size/Type: nut coal
Other Heating: electric, wood, oil

Post by Hoytman » Sat. Sep. 18, 2021 6:43 pm

lsayre wrote:
Thu. Jan. 22, 2015 6:15 pm
If you are comparing coal consumption vs. HDD's, then on those days when you must burn a certain amount of coal merely to sustain your fire and not to counter the cooling effect of HDD's, then for those days both the HDD's and the consumption should be discarded. About a quarter to a third of October is generally like this for me, and then it occurs again in April/May. It's much more rare when it happens in the months that lie between these extremes, but it can happen
Old thread I know...

Wouldn’t the above statement mean then that coal consumption numbers actually would improve?

Seems like it would if you’re deducting coal from actual usage just because it takes so much consumption of coal to keep a fire going when it is actually not needed that fire be burning that day.In other words, it keeps you from having to stop and relight, so it keeps you from tallying in that days consumption in the totals for the entire year.

Maybe I’m all wet. Sorry for bringing up an old thread but at the moment this thread is required reading. Maybe more on that at a later date.

 
Hoytman
Member
Posts: 6003
Joined: Wed. Jan. 18, 2017 11:30 pm
Location: swOH near a little town where the homes are mobile and the cars aren’t
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 354
Coal Size/Type: nut coal
Other Heating: electric, wood, oil

Post by Hoytman » Sat. Sep. 18, 2021 6:45 pm

Lightning wrote:
Thu. Jan. 22, 2015 6:46 pm
What he means is, there are days that we keep the fire burning when we don't need the heat (shoulder months). If those pounds are counted against HDDs, they will skew the results slightly when comparing an entire heating season. Instead, it's better to compare the times when you absolutely need the heat, like Dec, Jan Feb and March. But, any month can have a warm spell so all that needs to be accounted for.
Question answered. I should have been more patient in my reading. LOL!

Edit:
A moderator could delete both of the above posts and it wouldn’t hurt a thing. Thank you.

 
KingCoal
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Posts: 4837
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Location: Elkhart county, IN.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Post by KingCoal » Sun. Jul. 03, 2022 9:43 pm

Well, if it ain’t one thing it’s another and change is the only thing that stays the same

I have 2 very good stoves, FRANK and the GW#6, both of which were the last of the master blaster style stoves I got to simply over power the old windows and doors and no insulation in the house before I updated all that.
So now, with coal having doubled in price and no easy thing to arrange to have shipped the 700ish miles out here and finally adding the R38 insulation to the attic floor I really need to trim my fuel use.
Currently I’m looking at ways to reduce the fire pots in both stoves. I think the #6 would be fairly easy just pull the bricks and follow Pauliewog’s example of pouring a fluted flowerpot liner with thicker walls. I can get the top of the pot down from 14 to 12” and the bottom reduced about the same amount that way.
FRANK will be a few more steps, basically disconnect the back grate, set up a landing so I can put some bricks at a slant over that area.
This will reduce both the firebox capacity and open grate space.
Right now I’m thinking outside of finding a small mica base burner I’ll likely start out with FRANK this coming season because of the outrageously simple use and thermostatic control.
That’s about all from here in flyover territory
Thanks for following along
steve

 
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Sunny Boy
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Location: Central NY
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
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Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Post by Sunny Boy » Sun. Jul. 03, 2022 10:35 pm

Reducing the pot diameter sounds good, but,........

Reducing the diameter at the bottom to clear the grates so they can be turned could cause another problem. If you leave a gap for the grates to clear the bottom edge of the liner, then small pieces of coal could get wedged in there and jam the grates.

Since the #6 can run so well dampered down, and you have such a strong chimney draft. I'd leave the liner alone and look at ways to run it low and slow.

Maybe investigate adding a check damper in the pipe ?

Or try a reducer to a smaller diameter stove pipe to add exhaust flow resistance, plus reduce the heat radiating surface area of the pipe ?

Paul

 
waytomany?s
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Location: Oneida, N.Y.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harmon Mark II
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Coal Size/Type: Nut
Other Heating: newmac wood/coal combo furnace

Post by waytomany?s » Mon. Jul. 04, 2022 7:25 am

Well, you are Kingcoal, how about adding a kingoheat to the chimney. Should slow the vacuum cleaner exhaust some.

 
KingCoal
Member
Posts: 4837
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Location: Elkhart county, IN.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Post by KingCoal » Mon. Jul. 04, 2022 8:23 am

SB and WTMQ, thank you both for your insights.

I did identify the potential issue of fragments getting stuck under the over hang of added lining on the #6, it’s kind of a catch 22 with high likelihood of bothersome results.
The alteration of FRANKs firebox and grates is a much better experiment

As for additional exhaust flow restrictions, I feel like having 2 mpd’s, indirect option and secondary over fire adjustment I am able to hold or allow any level of draft I like in all but gusts above 30 mph sustained wind speed, which is not uncommon here at mid season

My trials with other stoves and installations have shown that the greatest contributing factor to heat generation or abatement is open grate area and firebed depth.

coal will only burn so slowly in optimal area, I’m sure the originators were will aware of this and why we have the antique designs we do.

Need less heat, use small grates and deep bed and magazine for duration. Need more heat, larger grates, wider fire pot and again magazine for duration.

This, to my thinking is why the mica base burners are the final achievement of the golden era. These stoves used bare iron fire pots surrounded with mica under the rim to the level of the grates, over the rim in the area of the actual fire and up into the dome of the combustion chamber. Mica and to a lesser extent glass are true marvels of minimal resistance to heat transfer.

Because of these measures, you can use the smallest possible amount of fuel and get vast heat release. short of this option I’ll move on with the continued evolution of FRANKs attributes and abilities.

Thanks
steve

 
waytomany?s
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Posts: 3747
Joined: Fri. Aug. 16, 2019 3:02 pm
Location: Oneida, N.Y.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harmon Mark II
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Looking
Baseburners & Antiques: Looking
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Other Heating: newmac wood/coal combo furnace

Post by waytomany?s » Mon. Jul. 04, 2022 12:18 pm

Is Frank getting a goalie mask worth of mica?


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