Box Stove to Base Heater Conversion Adventure

 
ddahlgren
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Post by ddahlgren » Sat. Oct. 20, 2018 7:53 pm

rberq wrote:
Fri. Oct. 12, 2018 6:51 pm
Now you have me thinking about the grill-work on the sides of my DS 1300. Considering replacing it with different grills that have much smaller holes, more closely approximating a solid piece of metal, but still a grill for the sake of appearance. Leaving a couple-inch gap at bottom and top, seems like it would significantly increase convection, but would it detrimentally reduce radiant heat?
I always thought the trade between convective vs. radiant was the size of the space with larger one more in need of convective. Just my take on it and free so know where to file...LOL


 
KingCoal
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Posts: 4837
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Location: Elkhart county, IN.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Post by KingCoal » Sat. Nov. 10, 2018 2:16 pm

Ok you guys my life slowed just enough for me to go scavenging in my junk sheet metal pile this morning and flesh out my mental image of double heater tracks for the side of FRANK

This was a very simple plan that I just needed to make it 3D

Here's some pics one the back to show how minimalist it truly is one set in place and one of the tells waving 2 minutes later

This is working wonderfully

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Last edited by KingCoal on Sun. Nov. 11, 2018 7:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

 
ddahlgren
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Posts: 1769
Joined: Tue. Feb. 19, 2013 3:30 pm
Location: Mystic CT
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404
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Post by ddahlgren » Sat. Nov. 10, 2018 4:02 pm

For your tag line.. I am an engineer with the philosophy that a truly elegant solution is one that if you take away 1 part it ceases to operate yet not one part defies any basic physical law.

 
KingCoal
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Posts: 4837
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Location: Elkhart county, IN.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Post by KingCoal » Sat. Nov. 10, 2018 5:50 pm

thanks DD,

took me quite a while to dig down into that far enough to fully grasp it :oops:

steve
Last edited by KingCoal on Sun. Nov. 11, 2018 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 
ddahlgren
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Post by ddahlgren » Sat. Nov. 10, 2018 6:36 pm

KingCoal wrote:
Sat. Nov. 10, 2018 5:50 pm
thanks DD,

took me quite a while to dig down into that far enough to fully grasp it :oops:

my modus, much to Larry's dismay, is "intuition properly applied is a match for science every time" ;)

steve
It is easy to disprove a theory it is much harder to discount I did this and this is what happened and your theory ignores it so gut feeling is you have no clue.. Welcome to my world of racing cars for 50 years and seeing every half baked expert that can't change a set of plugs or look at them and see what is going on inside the engine.

 
KingCoal
Member
Posts: 4837
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Location: Elkhart county, IN.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Post by KingCoal » Sun. Nov. 11, 2018 2:51 pm

umm,

having a chance to reconsider my statements i've edited my comments above.

there was no reason to have made them. i had seen a comment in another thread which i admit touched one of my own "conflict buttons" and rather than make an appeal in that thread and context i drug it over here and made it a blind side swipe toward the original poster and content.

this was unsupportable due to the fact that the statement was accurate and correct in it's original context and made even more disagreeable by my making it personal rather appealing the content.

Sooo, Larry i'm sorry i was so rude and to the rest of you for making such a poor show of my prejudices.

thanks,
steve

 
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lsayre
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Location: Ohio
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW), ComfortMax 75

Post by lsayre » Sun. Nov. 11, 2018 4:28 pm

No worries Steve! I actually got a chuckle out of it.


 
KingCoal
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Posts: 4837
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Location: Elkhart county, IN.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Post by KingCoal » Sat. Mar. 16, 2019 8:08 pm

Couple pics of FRANK doing some typical base burner low and slow tricks with the blue angels

I think that's pretty close to -.0025 and running very consistent

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Sunny Boy
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Posts: 25567
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
Location: Central NY
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Post by Sunny Boy » Sat. Mar. 16, 2019 8:25 pm

Quite the feeling isn't it ? To look in at what you know is a healthy fire, yet the stove is extracting so much heat from the exhaust stream that the mano is barely showing a reading. ;)

Paul

 
KingCoal
Member
Posts: 4837
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Location: Elkhart county, IN.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Post by KingCoal » Sat. Mar. 16, 2019 8:31 pm

Yep this is real common since I did the double heater tacts on this stove, that combined with the original suspended pot conversion

 
ddahlgren
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Post by ddahlgren » Sun. Mar. 17, 2019 1:10 am

It seems amazing with that low a draft that a CO alarm is not going off. As windy as it gets here something beyond my courage to try. I personally have no faith below 0.02 or 0.03 as it can easily reverse that much every now and then. You must have a nice high chimney!

 
KingCoal
Member
Posts: 4837
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Location: Elkhart county, IN.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Post by KingCoal » Sun. Mar. 17, 2019 6:23 am

Yep atomic leaf blower for a chimney. It has its pluses and minuses.

Right now the oat is 26 with dead calm air the stove looks the same but the Mano is showing .005 due to the temp differential at the top of the stack

I check that my Mano adjusted to zero pretty regularly 😂

 
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Sunny Boy
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Posts: 25567
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
Location: Central NY
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Post by Sunny Boy » Sun. Mar. 17, 2019 9:02 am

A tall chimney is certainly part of being able to have control over such a low draft. But that pic of the firebed shows that it's a strong, healthy fire being controlled.

With it's long flues, my range runs at such low mano numbers day and night, unless I boost it for cooking. And no matter how windy it gets, I've never had it reverse draft in the 14 years I've been running it.

The #6, with twice the firebed capacity of the range, wants to run a bit stronger draft - .02. It's ratio of firebed size to heat extracting surface area is much lower than the range's. So, more heat goes up the chimney then range allows, thus showing that higher reading on the mano. To get the same heat extracting proportions I'd have to add about 8 square feet of surface area to the #6.


And both chimney are the same height - about 5 feet higher than the peaks of the roof. All unlined brick over 120 years old, and oversized cross section according to some. But they had at least two stoves, I aware of, plumbed into each, yet they still draft very well. In fact they show I slight draft even in summer time. All of the houses in this section of town were built in the 1800's and all have chimneys taller than the tallest parts of the roof.

I can understand not wanting to risk such low, slow running with not as tall chimney. In my last house, I only had the chimney high enough to meet the minimum. What a pain to get it to draft when starting the stove - even when I used wood !!!!!

I think it's terrific how you've shown that a modern box stove can be made into an even more efficient heater using what the old timers knew over 100 years ago. :clap:

Despite all our technical advances, "new" isn't always better. ;)

Paul

 
KingCoal
Member
Posts: 4837
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Location: Elkhart county, IN.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Post by KingCoal » Sun. Mar. 17, 2019 9:57 am

interestingly, even in the super cold spells we get i do whatever i have to to keep FRANK from seeing more than -.02 inside the combustion chamber above the fire. from there i balance the bi metal and the exhaust damping to provide the heat demand and hold the draft right there.

from zero on up i can let the chimney set the draft with dampers full open all the way down to -.0025 ( as it was yesterday ) having a dependable fire and all the heat i need.

since we have so many types of surviving designs and current practical experience with them i would have to say "not much new actual is and some of what seems like it is may just be revisiting things formerly improved on "

don't forget box stoves were the first mass manufactured "enclosed fire" designs and by the time other designs came along had some pretty advanced features, not many current boxes have caught up with the best of those though we have examples of the ones that have and are being manufactured in the "modern age" here on the forum.

it's going to be a treat evaluating a #6 in my house and installation. if it doesn't cut it the next step will be a mica radiator with double heater, duplex grates with outer shaker ring, a 2 piece revolving fire pot and a magazine. ( yes i know where those are )

we will see.
steve

 
KingCoal
Member
Posts: 4837
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Location: Elkhart county, IN.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Post by KingCoal » Tue. Apr. 23, 2019 8:31 am

and...….FRANK is out and done for the season. last 2 mornings have been a bit unnerving sitting in the living room waiting to go to work with him staring at me blankly like, WTH buddy !!

so now, I've got 2 wm #120's bodies, one with a full height steel liner and one with no bricks, 1 WM 524B that will need a new barrel and has some split but complete bricks and T.OM. the WM #120 based can and a half, base heater, double heater home built custom for sale.

the WM's will be cheap, T.O.M. will be just enough to cover the costs of conversion ( if you followed my thread you know what a skin flint I am so I wouldn't be too shy about what that amount might be, if you are interested.)

I also have a Crawford #40 and a Herald model oak #18 direct draft ( this stove had no original back pipe ) that i'd like to move. the C40 is in Pittston, PA. with Pauliewog and the Herald is here in Elkhart county Indiana.

i'll be keeping FRANK as a back up because of his wide range o fburn ability (form barely 100* on the barrel to over 700*, if there is combustible clearance ) and uber simple tending.

thanks for following along on my journey
steve


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