Box Stove to Base Heater Conversion Adventure

KingCoal
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Posts: 3280
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 3-Locke Warm Morning #120, 1-Locke Warm Morning #524B
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none
Location: Elkhart county, IN.

Post Tue. Sep. 05, 2017 3:04 pm

i've had an extremely busy off season this yr. trying to keep up on my day job, broker a few stove deals and making time for my 2 main home shop businesses.

so..... i haven't done anything with the Crawford yet and if i do it will surely be after light up time which means at best it might be an option for a January thaw switch to see if i can do any better with it.

i'm a pretty fidgety guy, not much around here is ever totally over but, i'll start up on FRANK just because it's so easy and i won't have any critical stuff to do to start up.

thanks for watching,
steve

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KingCoal
Member
Posts: 3280
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 3-Locke Warm Morning #120, 1-Locke Warm Morning #524B
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none
Location: Elkhart county, IN.

Post Sat. Oct. 21, 2017 9:41 pm

at one point in this thread William mentioned a Germer Radiant Home with 22 inch fire pot.

has anyone not in on my recent off forum conversations ever seen or even heard of a 20 or 22" Radiant Home Base Burner Double Heater ?

steve

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McGiever
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Posts: 6121
Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV

Post Sat. Oct. 21, 2017 11:17 pm

Maybe way off here, but Radiant Home by Germer, I thought, were bit burners.???

KingCoal
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Posts: 3280
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 3-Locke Warm Morning #120, 1-Locke Warm Morning #524B
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none
Location: Elkhart county, IN.

Post Sun. Oct. 22, 2017 8:40 am

germer did 2 types of stoves, conventional anth, and "air blast " bit.

thanks,
steve

this is an Air Blast

https://www.google.com/search?q=germer+radiant+ho ... rKH9HJqAMM:

and this is an anth. base burner double heater

https://www.google.com/search?q=germer+radiant+ho ... RASoBMWXlM:

KingCoal
Member
Posts: 3280
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 3-Locke Warm Morning #120, 1-Locke Warm Morning #524B
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none
Location: Elkhart county, IN.

Post Sat. Nov. 11, 2017 1:36 pm

this is the stove i was looking at, someone else snagged it for $2400. which, if it would have come up about 12-20-17 i would have given myself as soon as i saw it. these are ultra rare now and if this one ever resurfaces it will be a miracle or someone here will be wanting to taunt me. :cry: :lol:

https://www.google.com/search?q=germer+radiant+ho ... JxirF9brLM:

KingCoal
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Posts: 3280
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 3-Locke Warm Morning #120, 1-Locke Warm Morning #524B
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none
Location: Elkhart county, IN.

Post Sat. Nov. 11, 2017 2:04 pm

relative to the title subject of the thread, i haven't committed to a design for a double heater shroud for the back of FRANK yet.

the best design to date would require the removal of the bi- metal therm. control box and spout and the use of the spinners in the ash door for primary air. this stove would run alright with air thru the door but, the present combination of a 17" pot baseburner w/ bi-metal and a hopper is pretty hard to beat for ease of use.

earlier, i posted the difference of draft force as registered under the lowest damper outside the stove body and in the combustion chamber above the fire. that earlier report was that the sample from the combustion chamber ( after the draft passing thru the base burner tract ) was an even .02 lower than outside the stove.

today i reworked my former sampling port in the combustion chamber and the result is still the same. with the mano. showing .04 under the lowest damper and moving the line directly to the port in the body ( no other changes ) it shows .02

this might be something to consider when trying to idle base burners in base mode. in my case, .02 outside the stove body is going to be 0 inside and a cause for concern.

steve

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Sunny Boy
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Posts: 13194
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace
Location: Central NY

Post Sat. Nov. 11, 2017 4:24 pm

Why get rid of the bi-metal control. I should think you could make a cutout and simple sheet metal baffle so that the shroud air goes around it the bi-metal box and flap without interfering with it ???

Then you won't have any venture affect causing problems with the flap, or increased air movement interfering with the bi-metal box temps.

Paul

KingCoal
Member
Posts: 3280
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 3-Locke Warm Morning #120, 1-Locke Warm Morning #524B
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none
Location: Elkhart county, IN.

Post Sat. Nov. 11, 2017 5:28 pm

yep good thinkin" :yes:

i can make a cover channel over the box and spout like on the old RiteWay's and present Hitzer's then go around that with the shroud.

stand by, modeling in session. ;)

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KingCoal
Member
Posts: 3280
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 3-Locke Warm Morning #120, 1-Locke Warm Morning #524B
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none
Location: Elkhart county, IN.

Post Sat. Nov. 11, 2017 6:36 pm

i'll use a couple former attachments to try to show the issues.

first one to show the position of the box and spout and to explain the position of each was a compromise by the builders, one to have the box out of view from a 45* degree or less viewing angle and second to have the intake as near as possible to the center as the box actuation would allow.
IMG_1518.gif
one to show proximity of back pipe
IMG_1507.JPG
there is space to move both box and spout to far right, question here is will having the primary that far to one side significantly affect the coal bed or will what we call "equalization" be at work ?

the plan here would be to have the box and spout both fully out of the shroud and not affected by it's draw.

:?:

KingCoal
Member
Posts: 3280
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 3-Locke Warm Morning #120, 1-Locke Warm Morning #524B
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none
Location: Elkhart county, IN.

Post Sat. Nov. 11, 2017 6:47 pm

here is a pic showing current location of spout inside the ash chamber
IMG_2030.gif

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Sunny Boy
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Posts: 13194
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace
Location: Central NY

Post Sat. Nov. 11, 2017 10:05 pm

If it were mine, I'd leave the box and flat where they are.

I'd make the shroud with holes for the box and the flap with a "tube" of sheet metal surrounding the holes. The tube lengths would be equal to the gap between shroud and stove body. Attach them to the shroud extending from the shroud to the stove body. That "steers" all air movement inside the shroud around the box and flap, thus preventing air movement from interfering with those two items.

Seems to me it'd be less work than relocating and closing up the original holes, and it leaves the box and flap where they were designed to be.

Paul

KingCoal
Member
Posts: 3280
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 3-Locke Warm Morning #120, 1-Locke Warm Morning #524B
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none
Location: Elkhart county, IN.

Post Sun. Nov. 12, 2017 8:58 am

another good idea.

i think i'm going to play with this in 2-3 stages, simplest first.

remove the box and spout and use the spinners for draft while testing the shroud design and fitment.

if successful, try your inverted coffee can idea, though it could hinder some flow flow to the right of the flue pipe.

depending on out comes, stick with the door spinners , use the tubes or move the box and spout.

i work pretty hard to have the outdoorsy kind of house work done for the yr. by this time and since i'm still working 10 hr days outside full time, when i come home i don't go back out much and need stuff to do. :baby:

rberq
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Posts: 5105
Joined: Mon. Apr. 16, 2007 9:34 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300 with hopper
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Nut
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators (fuel oil); propane
Location: Central Maine

Post Sun. Nov. 12, 2017 9:11 am

KingCoal wrote:
Sun. Nov. 12, 2017 8:58 am
remove the box and spout and use the spinners for draft while testing the shroud design and fitment.
Maybe just block off the spout until you try the spinners -- much easier to undo.

My Harman stove had a high quality and precise spinner bolted rigidly to the cast iron ash door; the inner side is concave so only the edges of the spinner contact the door surface. The spinners on the DS Machine are lightweight, flat, rough disks, and both the disk and its bolt start to flop around as soon as you loosen them a bit. Probably nowhere near adequate for good air control.

I always thought, if I wanted to use the spinners on the DS Machine, the first thing I would do is buy Harman spinners and retrofit them.

KingCoal
Member
Posts: 3280
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 3-Locke Warm Morning #120, 1-Locke Warm Morning #524B
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none
Location: Elkhart county, IN.

Post Sun. Nov. 12, 2017 3:43 pm

i figure tack welding the bolt heads to the back of the door will help and the disks can be surface ground slightly to form a smoother fit.

i'll just release the chain and remove the box while i set up the shroud, i want the flow from the top as even as possible. ultimately i want to use the whole width of the back or at least most of it.

thanks,
steve

KingCoal
Member
Posts: 3280
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 3-Locke Warm Morning #120, 1-Locke Warm Morning #524B
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none
Location: Elkhart county, IN.

Post Sun. Dec. 10, 2017 5:29 pm

ya know what's fun ?

going out for the day and coming home 30 mins. before average 12 hr. shake down time and finding your stove holding the house exactly on target temperature with the primary open about 1/4" and the mano. registering a mere .005 pressure diff. measured inside the combustion chamber.

side of stove 411* stack at thimble 102* in base mode.

i have decided on a non invasive approach to double heating for this yr. pics coming soon.

thanks for watching,
steve

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