Clayton / Hot Blast Mods and Tending for Anthracite

hotblast1357 · Post by **hotblast1357** » Fri. Jul. 25, 2014 12:31 pm

But before I added the baro, I was not sucking as much air out as I am know, so wouldn't that have cause for more negative in the house, so now if I add a intake would I almost equal it out as if I didn't have the baro, because like now the chimney is capped inside and no air is being drawn out so just the natural stack effect is happening, but when u run the stove I start sucking more air out causing more air to be sucked in?

KingCoal · Post by **KingCoal** » Fri. Jul. 25, 2014 12:41 pm

i know you have explained this phenom at several times since I've been on the forum but this is the first time I think I actually understand what you are saying.

not a failure on your part, I just seem to be able to "see" it this time.

it is also much more incentive to do what I have planed to seal up my house, and more.

thanks,
steve

Post by **Lightning** » Fri. Jul. 25, 2014 12:42 pm

The pulling out of air by the barometric damper lowers the pressure in the house. That is correct. When factoring in the pressure plane this causes it to adjust to a position higher in the house. Which in turn reduces the positive pressure at the top of the house causing less heated home air to leave the house.

As a result of all this, there is some added air infiltration by the baro. But at the same time less warm air is leaving at the top of the house. This air is rerouted thru your
baro. All of this ultimately means slower turn over of your home's heated air as compared to having a dedicated air source..

Post by **Lightning** » Fri. Jul. 25, 2014 12:43 pm

Thanks Steve

I know its confusing lol

hotblast1357 · Post by **hotblast1357** » Fri. Jul. 25, 2014 12:47 pm

So what your saying is that my baro is acting like my cold air return sucking the warm air back into the basement, but instead of going back through my furnace its goin out the chimney?

Post by **Lightning** » Fri. Jul. 25, 2014 1:19 pm

hotblast1357 wrote:So what your saying is that my baro is acting like my cold air return sucking the warm air back into the basement, but instead of going back through my furnace its goin out the chimney?

Not really.. the circulation system is independent of all this... what I meant was that only part of the air that the baro and combustion is using comes from additional air infiltration. The other part is warm air that would have left the house but couldn't due to the new position of the pressure plane in the house.

You see, its easy to mistake that all of the air that the baro and combustion use equates into additional cold air infiltration but the way I see it, only part of it is additional air infiltration when stack effect and position of the pressure plane are taken into account.

Post by **Lightning** » Fri. Jul. 25, 2014 1:34 pm

Basically my thinking is that turn over of the home's air would be promoted by adding a way in for more air. We want to keep the warm air inside not give it more reason to leave.

hotblast1357 · Post by **hotblast1357** » Fri. Jul. 25, 2014 1:45 pm

I guess lol idk I can't get my head around it I guess, I just think of it as, my primary and baro are sucking air out the chimney in the basement, and that air is coming from windows doors cracks etc up stairs, so if I give it a point to suck from in the basement by the stove, it will not pull the cold air in from upstairs? But hey I'm just a kid lol and I learn something new everyday

KingCoal · Post by **KingCoal** » Fri. Jul. 25, 2014 1:48 pm

where is brother nortcan ?

he seems to me to be a real smart guy about all this air handling / exchanging stuff as far as devising a truly working system goes.

look at the efficiency and economy he has documented !! in a climate that is no better than ours.

Post by **Lightning** » Fri. Jul. 25, 2014 2:18 pm

hotblast1357 wrote:So what your saying is that my baro is acting like my cold air return sucking the warm air back into the basement, but instead of going back through my furnace its goin out the chimney?

Let me try that again..

Part of the air that the baro uses is additional air infiltration. The other part is infiltration that is already happening due to stack effect in the house..

hotblast1357 · Post by **hotblast1357** » Fri. Jul. 25, 2014 3:19 pm

So I could cut back that additional air infiltration with air supplied from outside? Making the house not so drafty

Post by **Lightning** » Fri. Jul. 25, 2014 6:22 pm

hotblast1357 wrote:So I could cut back that additional air infiltration with air supplied from outside? Making the house not so drafty

One common misperception is that a home should be allowed to “breath.” While all homes should have proper ventilation, most homes have far more uncontrolled air leakage than necessary. The DOE recommends that a healthy and energy efficient home should turnover 100% of its air every 3 hours, while a leaky home will often complete the same turnover in as little as 30-45 minutes.

My thinking is that adding more air will increase house turnover which results in needing more heat, more coal..

hotblast1357 · Post by **hotblast1357** » Fri. Jul. 25, 2014 6:36 pm

What do u mean by house turnover?

Post by **Lightning** » Fri. Jul. 25, 2014 6:50 pm

hotblast1357 wrote:What do u mean by house turnover?

The exchange of the air in the home..

KingCoal · Post by **KingCoal** » Fri. Jul. 25, 2014 7:09 pm

at great and admitted risk of being shown my error I will try using Lee's comments and some things I THINK I gleaned from some of member nortcan's comments to make another explanation.

i live in a little house. there is a uninsulated block basement of 680s.f., a ( currently, about to be remedied )partly insulated 1st floor of 680 s.f. which is where my stove is, and there is an uninsulated 2nd floor ( we don't care how much or little heat gets up there, we like to sleep cool. there is minimal insulation in the attic.

i think the neutral stack plain here is about 5 ft up the 9 ft. 1st floor walls. that is also the centerline of the thimble into my chimney. this shows me why tightening up my house much more is so important.

the neutral plain runs right thru the vertical center of 4 of my worst fitting windows (so it's pushing air out the top of them and pulling it in the bottom, again about to be remedied ) the plain is also responsible for pulling cold air up out of the basement and in from the front enclosed but unheated front porch under the doors ( mostly fixed with a draft dodger )

the plain is also responsible for forcing air out of the house everywhere it can on the second floor.

how can this be dealt with ? well, nortcan has made very good points to the effect that we must 1st, achieve a very tight and well insulated envelope to start with. ( i'm working on this with great determination ) only then can we control the effect of the stack plain.

if we start from that point we can add an air handler that will allow us to precisely control the rate and location that air comes in and leaves the house for ventilation purposes. it will also free us from drafts and concerns over combustion air access in all but constant limited draft conditions.

there you go, I've got my body armor on so blast away.