Hitzer 30-95 Baro Damper ?

Modern and vintage hand fired coal stove are similar to a wood stove and in some cases can burn either. They need to be regulated and fed by hand usually every 12 to 24 hours depending on your usage. They require no power to operate making them ideal for rural settings with long power outages.
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John3100
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 30-95
Coal Size/Type: Nut

Post Tue. Jan. 14, 2014 10:19 pm

Hi guys new to the forum I have a Hitzer 30-95 have had it about two years now works great. I decided to do some changing so I installed a baro damper on it, left my mpd just below the new baro damper. I get alot of wind at my house being it sits out in the open. I was having some issues when it would get very cold and windy out of burning very fast and high stack temps. My question first is could I still use my pipe damper below my baro if I wanted too ? Baro would still control draft above mpd ?

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fastcat
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Nut/Stove Mix
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Post Wed. Jan. 15, 2014 12:41 am

Well good luck with the baro. Now for your problem, you have air leaks. If you call Dean at Hitzer he will tell you that these stoves do not need any type damper in the pipe if you keep good gaskets on all doors. By your post it sounds like you have air leaking into the stove some place, I would be looking at the ash door and slider first, if the slider is to loose it can let in a lot of air on a windy day. Start checking using some sort of smoke, don't forget about the hole where the shaker comes out the side of the stove. If you do find a bad gasket see if you can find some flat sheet metal to cover the opening, prop a brick or something against it to hold it tight and remove the door let cool replace the gasket install the door without putting out the fire. I bet that baro doesn't last long once you see how much heat that thing sucks out of the house. Sorry for the bad words on the baro I know I'll get stoned about that and hung on a cross.
This is only my two cents
and sometimes it is not worth that

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oliver power
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Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
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Baseburners & Antiques: MANY (Mostly when burning wood)
Location: Near Dansville, NY

Post Wed. Jan. 15, 2014 3:01 am

I too live on a windy hill. I never used a manual pipe damper, or barometric damper. Both stoves always run just fine. On my 30-95 (in my shop), the ash pan door vents are opened about 1/8 inch, if that. The ash pan door vents give just enough air to keep the fire alive, alert, and able to respond quicker when the back flapper pops open. This will give you steadier heat output, rather than a choked down fire, trying to come alive. If the ash pan vents are too far open, it is possible for high wind to burn up the coal ahead of time. Room temp is controlled using the back dial. Which for heating your house, would be on about #8 - #9 max. If you're having to run much above #9, the coal will burn up faster than you'd like. Then I'd say you're asking a lot of the 30-95. She will crank hotter, no doubt. But, you will notice shorter burn times than you'd like.

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dcrane
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Post Wed. Jan. 15, 2014 3:09 am

John3100 wrote:Hi guys new to the forum I have a Hitzer 30-95 have had it about two years now works great. I decided to do some changing so I installed a baro damper on it, left my mpd just below the new baro damper. I get alot of wind at my house being it sits out in the open. I was having some issues when it would get very cold and windy out of burning very fast and high stack temps. My question first is could I still use my pipe damper below my baro if I wanted too ? Baro would still control draft above mpd ?
the answer to you question is YES, no manufacturer is going to say that but many folks here do exactly what your saying. a hitzer 30-95 is no different from any other solid welded manual coal stove and (might as well say that NO other manual coal stoves ever need a baro as long as gaskets are tight and nice and theirs no leaks... we all know thats simply not the case)...if you put that stove in a super high drafting location (something not everyone can associate with) you may very well find a baro / mpd combo works for you! Yet... it may not be needed for 90% of everyone else. It would be good for you to let us know if your finding a coal savings, longer burns or better more even heat output?

Welcome to the forum!

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Lightning
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Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Overmodified/Bored out Clayton 1537
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Awesome Size
Location: Olean, NY

Post Wed. Jan. 15, 2014 8:04 am

John3100 wrote:My question first is could I still use my pipe damper below my baro if I wanted too ? Baro would still control draft above mpd ?
Yes and Yes...
John3100 wrote:I was having some issues when it would get very cold and windy out of burning very fast and high stack temps.
I agree with the others, it sounds like you are getting extra combustion air leaking into the stove somewhere.. Probably from a loose seal around the ash pan door, but there could be other locations also..

To properly diagnose the runaway fire condition you are describing, you need a draft gauge (manometer) to see what the negative pressure in the fire box is doing. Then based on the readings you could adjust your dampers to a reasonable steady draft pressure and you would then see a marked improvement with your stoves burning characteristics..
fastcat wrote:I bet that baro doesn't last long once you see how much heat that thing sucks out of the house. Sorry for the bad words on the baro I know I'll get stoned about that and hung on a cross.
No stones needed.. Its not as bad as it seems.. Somewhere between some and most of the air the baro is using is air that would have left the house somewhere else anyways.. It is in effect being re-routed thru the baro instead. This goes for additional cold air infiltration also, not all of the the air the baro uses is additional air infiltration. It has to do with the neutral pressure plane location in the house.

@ John - I'd rather not complicate your runaway fire condition with all that though.. My first plan of attack would be to check for leaks with smoke from an incense and order a manometer, in the mean time tweak the manual damper to slow the burn down when it seems to rage.

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freetown fred
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut
Location: Freetown,NY 13803

Post Wed. Jan. 15, 2014 11:51 am

Two things---#1---the 30-95 & 50-93 are absolutely designed differently then many hand-fired stoves out here & to assume differently would just be showing one's lack of knowledge pertaining to any particular stove type. When I post suggestions, they are from experience on the stove I am personally using or have used. Just sayin. #2--if the Hitzer has ANY kind of gasket needs, putting a Baro/MPD or ANYTHING, may show short term or pseudo improvement--ex: band aid on a gaping wound-- My posts on using my MPD are primarily from burning wood for 35+ yrs & it humors me--I have run my 50-93 with the MPD wide open for given lengths of time & the difference is non existent--the 30-95 & 50-93 are tried & true by manufacturers that I trust to the hilt--we owners play with minor adjustments, such as bi-metallic setting, ash-door vent setting, etc--gaskets are of the UTMOST importance-- those personal settings are tried & true for each individual climatic setting :)
"A people that values it's privileges above it's principals, soon loses both"--Dwight D Eisenhower

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michaelanthony
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Post Wed. Jan. 15, 2014 1:06 pm

I will try to be short with this. The stove in my basement is a 30 yr. old box stove with a blower that I have tried to tighten up with new gasket and a new door, but I am sure it still has internal leaks that I can't find short of rewelding any and all seems! It requires a mpd before the baro to hold a -.04 draft and it works awesome,( I only use it during extreme cold, 2 weeks ago ). I have a Vigilant II in my livingroom that is very tight and has an indirect exhaust path and a bi-metal control air inlet, I get 550* on the stove and 180*-200* temps on the flue on average with a mpd FOR BURNING WOOD COME SPRING on the flue pipe. Everyone is nice and warm, I could install a baro but why? Don't need it the stove is fine without it and so am I.
never yell through a screen...you'll strain your voice.

John3100
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 30-95
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Post Wed. Jan. 15, 2014 6:20 pm

Well thanks guys for all the tips and suggestions. I didn't mention in my posting that I had already changed my ash pan door gasket and purchased a brand new whole assembled door from hitzer this year so that has new gaskets and the top door gasket in the top for the hopper I replaced last spring. And as far as runaway fires it never got above 325F on the stack that was -8 outside with a 35 mph wind across my house. I have always just used my MPD and had it almost completely shut. On a very very cold strong windy nights the stove draft would pull so hard that it would pull the dancing blue flames behind the hopper.
Last night I purchased a baro damper from a local dealer and installed. Dealer stated to set it between 2 and 4 and should be good, I don't have a manometer. Whats a good model to buy ? After one night my burn very very good ash was like powder , nice slow burn , house plenty warm lot less coal used I was really shocked after reading all the bad comments on putting baros on there stoves. Stack temp only got up to 158F stove top was 438F I was pretty happy with this. Next I was going to play with shutting ash door vents all the way I got it open like 1/8 inch now? Any suggestions ?

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rberq
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300 with hopper
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Location: Central Maine

Post Wed. Jan. 15, 2014 6:41 pm

John3100 wrote:... I was really shocked after reading all the bad comments on putting baros on there stoves.
:lol: It's one of the things we always argue about. I found the baro really helpful with my previous stove (Harman) for the same reasons you did, but other people with the same stove said it was unnecessary. With my current stove I have both MPD and baro, the MPD causes me nothing but trouble, and the baro seems to help a little but not a lot. So IT DEPENDS .... every house / stove / chimney combination is a little different.
Simple answers for simple minds.

John3100
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 30-95
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Post Wed. Jan. 15, 2014 7:29 pm

My next question when installed my new baro damper I placed it above my manual pipe damper would it help if I still close my MPD so I keep more of the gases in the stove ? Seems with just the baro you loose alot of those up the chimney?

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Lightning
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Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Overmodified/Bored out Clayton 1537
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Location: Olean, NY

Post Wed. Jan. 15, 2014 8:11 pm

John3100 wrote:My next question when installed my new baro damper I placed it above my manual pipe damper would it help if I still close my MPD so I keep more of the gases in the stove ? Seems with just the baro you loose alot of those up the chimney?
When it comes to gases leaving the stove, both devices do the same thing. The manual damper achieves this by restricting the flow of flue gases while the barometric weakens draft strength by allowing cooler room air into it.

Both devices effectively weaken the negative pressure in the fire box which in return slows gases from leaving the stove.

John3100
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Post Wed. Jan. 15, 2014 8:49 pm

Ok thanks for the help !!

rberq
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Location: Central Maine

Post Thu. Jan. 16, 2014 8:42 am

John3100 wrote: would it help if I still close my MPD so I keep more of the gases in the stove ?
Experiment with it. I tried the same thing. It didn't help me, but that doesn't mean it won't help you.
Simple answers for simple minds.

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