Does a Fan Produce More Heat or Just Blow the Air Around?

Modern and vintage hand fired coal stove are similar to a wood stove and in some cases can burn either. They need to be regulated and fed by hand usually every 12 to 24 hours depending on your usage. They require no power to operate making them ideal for rural settings with long power outages.
User avatar
lsayre
Member
Posts: 12191
Joined: Wed. Nov. 23, 2005 9:17 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)
Location: N/E Ohio, between Medina and Wadsworth

Post Thu. Jan. 16, 2014 7:27 am

Lightning wrote:Larry, pardon me for saying so but I think you being a bit stubborn at this point lol. I have to agree,, the fan doesn't produce any heat. Hell the stove doesn't produce any heat either. It's merely a heat transfer station. The only thing producing heat is the coal.

The elevated volume of air moving across the stove's surface is causing better heat transfer efficiency. I believe this was the original poster's intention.
Then the OP should have used words more appropriate to that end. See the capital P in Produce in the subject line. The word should have been "induce" (as in for example: induce the potential for more heat given that voltage must remain constant), not produce.

A new riddle. How many BTU's would a resistance heater produce if a fan was blowing across its resistance element to lower the resistance, but the power company did not assure constant voltage, but rather allowed the voltage to drop and instead guarranteed that you would always receive a constant current flow?

V- IR
I = V/R

If the current flow stays the same the BTU's stay the same. Energy (the number of flowing electrons) in = energy (BTU's) out
Last edited by lsayre on Thu. Jan. 16, 2014 7:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
-Larry

Democracy rests upon the principle that collective wisdom arises from a pool of individual ignorance. A Republic rests squarely upon objective law, and fundamentally upon those laws which restrict the scope and actions of government.

User avatar
freetown fred
Member
Posts: 21410
Joined: Thu. Dec. 31, 2009 12:33 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut
Location: Freetown,NY 13803

Post Thu. Jan. 16, 2014 7:28 am

Ya know, there's a real fine line between discussion & mental masturbation. Just an old farmers observations :)
"A people that values it's privileges above it's principals, soon loses both"--Dwight D Eisenhower

waldo lemieux
Member
Posts: 2261
Joined: Sun. Sep. 30, 2012 8:20 pm
Stove/Furnace Make: efm
Stove/Furnace Model: s-20
Location: Ithaca,NY

Post Thu. Jan. 16, 2014 7:54 am

^^^ :rofl:

Larry must be bored, it took 14 pages for him to point out that the op should have phrased the question a bit differently, though I think everyone (including Larry) knew what the real question was. Oh well , I was enjoying the mastrabation :woot:
When faced with a seemingly impossible task, my grandfather always said "can't never can, untill try comes along"

User avatar
Lightning
Member
Posts: 8289
Joined: Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 9:51 am
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Overmodified/Bored out Clayton 1537
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Awesome Size
Location: Olean, NY

Post Thu. Jan. 16, 2014 8:17 am

Is this a trick question?
Volts x amps equals watts
Watts define BTU output.
If volts drop, more amperage would be needed to maintain heat output. Fan or no fan. :D

User avatar
dcrane
Verified Business Rep.
Posts: 3115
Joined: Sun. Apr. 22, 2012 9:28 am
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404
Location: Duxbury, MA./Hanson MA./Brockton, MA

Post Thu. Jan. 16, 2014 9:09 am

Lightning wrote:Is this a trick question?
Volts x amps equals watts
Watts define BTU output.
If volts drop, more amperage would be needed to maintain heat output. Fan or no fan. :D
IDK man... someone got larrys head going :cry:
We need some large Tubs of water fast! or RUN!
firestater movie.jpg

Visit Hitzer Stoves

kstills
Member
Posts: 639
Joined: Tue. Jan. 18, 2011 6:41 am
Stoker Coal Boiler: WL 110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Location: New Britain, PA

Post Thu. Jan. 16, 2014 11:07 am

tony17112acst wrote:I'm the OP. *bows*

My assumption in my question is that the same amount of energy is used inside the stove with and without the fan.

Please consider the original question with say, an electric resistance coil heater set up inside of the stove. This heater can only put out a certain number of BTU's ...say 50,000 BTU's ...and no more!

So I ask you recent posters: Will more heat transfer to the room by pointing a fan on the stove that contains this 50,000 BTU electric heater? You cannot claim that more heat will come out of the electric heater inside the stove (because it's impossible). The clear answer is "yes." It is "yes" because a fan will cause a lower temp on the outside of the stove and more heat will transfer to the room and not out the pipe/chimney because of the principle that exists that heat transfers through a medium more quickly as the temperature difference is greater on either side of it.
EFFICIENCY IS A GOOD THING. BUT...
Solid fuel appliances only work because of the The Chimney Effect - by losing a certain amount of heat into the chimney, they make the gases there rise and so safely evacuate smoke and pull fresh air onto the fuel to make it burn. An appliance with a very high efficiency is losing less heat into the chimney and, unless its chimney is perfect, it may encounter problems in generating enough draught to make it burn effectively, or safely evacuate smoke, it may be problematic in lighting-up from cold and may not keep the waste gases hot enough to prevent tar from condensing inside the flue. This is why appliances with the very highest efficiencies, some above 90% (net), almost invariably require an electric chimney fan.


Apples-oranges....

kstills
Member
Posts: 639
Joined: Tue. Jan. 18, 2011 6:41 am
Stoker Coal Boiler: WL 110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Location: New Britain, PA

Post Thu. Jan. 16, 2014 11:11 am

And this:

MEASURING EFFICIENCY and OUTPUT
It is not normally practical to directly measure the heat output of a solid fuel appliance, instead, samples of the waste flue gas are taken - usually using a flue gas analyser the chemical composition of the gas indicates how efficiently the fuel has been burned and its temperature indicates how much of the heat generated has been captured and how much is lost into the chimney.

Given the temperature of and percentage of carbon dioxide (CO2) in the exiting flue gas, the, moderately accurate, Siegert's formula gives the efficiency from:

100 - ( (MeanFlueTemp ºC - MeanRoomTemp ºC) x (A1 / CO2%) )

(Where A1 is: Anthracite=0.683, Coke=0.290, Bituminous Coal=0.672, Lignite=1, Peat=0.7, Dry Wood=0.650)

The heat output in kW is then calculated from:

(Efficiency x Potential heat in kW x Fuel burned in kg) / Burn time in hours

...using data on the Fuel Properties page


It takes a lot of page views to come up with relevant data...

User avatar
freetown fred
Member
Posts: 21410
Joined: Thu. Dec. 31, 2009 12:33 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut
Location: Freetown,NY 13803

Post Thu. Jan. 16, 2014 3:17 pm

As in, one mans relevant is another mans regurgitate :clap: toothy
"A people that values it's privileges above it's principals, soon loses both"--Dwight D Eisenhower

Sunny Boy
Member
Posts: 12600
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace
Location: Central NY

Post Thu. Jan. 16, 2014 3:29 pm

freetown fred wrote:As in, one mans relevant is another mans regurgitate :clap: toothy
:D

Paul
So many stoves - so few chimneys. I must be coal-stone crazy.

kstills
Member
Posts: 639
Joined: Tue. Jan. 18, 2011 6:41 am
Stoker Coal Boiler: WL 110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Location: New Britain, PA

Post Thu. Jan. 16, 2014 3:35 pm

freetown fred wrote:As in, one mans relevant is another mans regurgitate :clap: toothy
I suppose we all have different levels of interest on how things work.

Cheers.

Visit Hitzer Stoves

PJT
Member
Posts: 400
Joined: Fri. Jan. 06, 2012 11:11 pm
Baseburners & Antiques: Magee Royal Oak; Glenwood Modern Oak 116
Other Heating: propane
Location: South Central CT

Post Thu. Jan. 16, 2014 11:18 pm

...is it over?...

User avatar
oliver power
Member
Posts: 2266
Joined: Sun. Apr. 16, 2006 9:28 am
Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-Vigilant-II), D.S. 1600 Circulator
Baseburners & Antiques: MANY (Mostly when burning wood)
Location: Near Dansville, NY

Post Fri. Jan. 17, 2014 6:15 am

PJT wrote:...is it over?...
I sure hope so......

User avatar
freetown fred
Member
Posts: 21410
Joined: Thu. Dec. 31, 2009 12:33 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut
Location: Freetown,NY 13803

Post Fri. Jan. 17, 2014 6:47 am

WAIT----was that the fat lady I heard singing??? :clap: toothy
"A people that values it's privileges above it's principals, soon loses both"--Dwight D Eisenhower

Sunny Boy
Member
Posts: 12600
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace
Location: Central NY

Post Fri. Jan. 17, 2014 7:02 am

freetown fred wrote:WAIT----was that the fat lady I heard singing??? :clap: toothy
Lets hope she doesn't have a fan club ? :D

Paul
So many stoves - so few chimneys. I must be coal-stone crazy.

Post Reply

Return to “Hand Fired Coal Stoves & Furnaces Using Anthracite”