Cookin' With Coal

 
ReidH
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Posts: 13
Joined: Sat. Dec. 14, 2019 2:12 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada
Hand Fed Coal Stove: AGA 47/10 Cooker

Post by ReidH » Thu. Jan. 30, 2020 7:44 pm

Sunny Boy wrote:
Thu. Jan. 30, 2020 10:49 am
Thanks Reid. More unique about the design.


Agreed. By "storing" the heat with a lot of the stove's exterior well insulated it's not releasing it as well into the room. So then, most likely it sends quite a bit up the chimney ? Good for cooking baking without working the firebed as hard, but not as good for heating the house.

When I made the back heat shield box for my range, the intension was to be able to safely move the range closer to the wall, plus not send heat to an outside wall. With many ranges, the back of the oven is the only single wall. There is no double thickness like the door and a heat source surrounding it with the firebox and flues covering the top, sides, and bottom, so the oven looses heat out the back.

By enclosing the entire back of the oven and firebox with a sheet metal "box" and adding two layers of one inch thick rock wool sheets, held inside the box with long cotter pins, the oven temps went up and the heat distribution inside the oven became more even, thus not needing to open the oven door to turn baking items as often and then having the oven need more time to recover that heat lost with the door open. So not only is less heat being lost to an outside wall, plus the oven was hotter without needing the firebed working hotter, the baking times were also reduced.

Another trick I learned was from Melissa's Mother, who was a school home economics teacher. The oven door has a tin plated panel inside it to reflect heat back in. After 100+ years the tin plating is pretty well gone. Melissa's Mother covered the inside of the oven door with Heavy duty aluminum foil to reflect heat back into the oven.

I removed the oven door panel and wrapped it with two layers of HD aluminum foil and that helped raise the oven temp, also.

Paul
Paul,
I think we are both agreed that the AGA is not going to be much of a heater for our climate here. Probably not too bad as a cooker. That I will find out in the spring/summer.
Ultimately I want a North American coal range to heat the house and do much of the cooking duties. I am sure a Findlay/Elmira/Heartland Oval can heat the whole house from the kitchen considering a hungry pellet stove in the kitchen currently does a decent job of keeping the whole house cosy. The AGA will become the winter heater and summer range in the summer kitchen when I finish designing it and get to building it. The house has been missing it's summer kitchen for the past 43 years.

I think insulating between the back of your range and heat shield is a great idea and sounds to be beneficial to keeping the oven temps up.

Is there potential to insulate between the oven door and the tin panel? That would likely improve things further. May require you to leave the oven door open when the range is just heating the house.

Reid

Reid

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Sunny Boy
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Posts: 20502
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
Location: Central NY
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Post by Sunny Boy » Thu. Jan. 30, 2020 8:14 pm

There isn't enough room between that oven door and that inner reflecting panel to fit insulation. Just a slight air gap which is some help for insulating. And being as how the oven door faces into the center of the kitchen it's less of an oven heat-loss concern to me than the thin single layer of cast iron of the oven back that is facing an uninsulated outside wall. Considering how much time we use the range for heating, verses baking, not having a well insulated oven door is a good trade-off.

Can the AGA function safely if you remove some of that DE insulation to increase it's heat radiating ability ?

Paul

 
ReidH
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Posts: 13
Joined: Sat. Dec. 14, 2019 2:12 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada
Hand Fed Coal Stove: AGA 47/10 Cooker

Post by ReidH » Thu. Jan. 30, 2020 9:31 pm

Sunny Boy wrote:
Thu. Jan. 30, 2020 8:14 pm


Can the AGA function safely if you remove some of that DE insulation to increase it's heat radiating ability ?

Paul
I was thinking about that myself, then figured that leaving the insulation as is and running with the insulating lids on the top open and the oven doors open would expose most of the heated surfaces to the room. Worth testing when I have it installed. Success, in my mind, being if it could maintain +20C IAT in the sitting room at night and the fire was restorable in the morning when it is -22C OAT.
20C = 68F and -22 = -8F.
Thing is this year, we haven't experienced a -22C night yet.

Reid

 
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Sunny Boy
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Posts: 20502
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
Location: Central NY
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Post by Sunny Boy » Fri. Jan. 31, 2020 5:22 am

From the pictures, it looks like the firebox would hold quite a bit of coal. Then the trick is getting that heat out before the chimney. Propping the doors and lids open will surly help. And the old time method of using as much length of single wall pipe indoors will, too.

Have you measured the firebox, yet ? I read about requesting one inch sized coal. That's in between our pea and nut sized coal. So you could use either. Smaller size to increase fuel bed density and burn times, or larger size to increase cooking/baking temperatures. Does any of the info say how many pounds of that sized coal that AGA holds ?

My range's small, brick lined firebox is about 7 wide x 7 high x 17 long and hold about 25 pounds maximum. That'll run for about 10-12 hours loaded to the top and idled down for the night.

Paul

 
ReidH
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Posts: 13
Joined: Sat. Dec. 14, 2019 2:12 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada
Hand Fed Coal Stove: AGA 47/10 Cooker

Post by ReidH » Fri. Jan. 31, 2020 8:15 pm

Sunny Boy wrote:
Fri. Jan. 31, 2020 5:22 am
From the pictures, it looks like the firebox would hold quite a bit of coal. Then the trick is getting that heat out before the chimney. Propping the doors and lids open will surly help. And the old time method of using as much length of single wall pipe indoors will, too.
Have you measured the firebox, yet ? I read about requesting one inch sized coal. That's in between our pea and nut sized coal. So you could use either. Smaller size to increase fuel bed density and burn times, or larger size to increase cooking/baking temperatures. Does any of the info say how many pounds of that sized coal that AGA holds ?
Paul
I haven't measured the firebox, but would estimate a 10 to 12 inch diameter. This is based on the drawings on the instruction card.
I can probably manage about 8 feet of single wall stove pipe which would help increase the radiant surfaces. The internal flue path is shorter than a coal range made here, so you are quite right about getting as much heat out before it gets to the chimney.
Again, no clue how many pounds of coal the AGA holds. I will do some searching on that.

Good point about the one inch coal size spec'd. DIdn't think of using pea sized as well as nut sized coal. Was figuring nut would be closest approximate.
I figure an MPD and a manometer would be crucial to managing it as a heater. There is also the secondary air to the flue chamber in the AGA, situated just prior to the flue outlet in the stove. Have read that this was recommended to be blocked off later on and I have seen a couple of pictures of stoves from this era with it blocked off. It would appear that is acting more as a fixed check damper. Strange as there is a check damper on the flue outlet of the stove Maybe the secondary air was important for burning coke or maybe it was a method for burning volatiles from anthracite??

Reid

Reid

 
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D.lapan
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Posts: 689
Joined: Sun. Jan. 18, 2015 9:40 pm
Location: plainfield NH
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: newmac wood,coal,oil como
Baseburners & Antiques: 20th century laurel, glenwood hickory,crawford fairy
Coal Size/Type: nut, stove

Post by D.lapan » Sun. Feb. 16, 2020 6:25 pm

This would be perfect on a coal stove
Picked this up last week

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mntbugy
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Posts: 1122
Joined: Fri. Dec. 23, 2016 2:36 pm
Location: clearfield,pa
Hand Fed Coal Stove: D S 1500, Warm Moring 400
Baseburners & Antiques: Art Garland 145,GW114 ,Clarion 115, Vestal 20 Globe,New Royal22 Globe, Red Cross Oak 56,Acme Ventiduct 38,Radiant Airblast 626,Home Airblast 62,Moores #7,Moores 3way
Coal Size/Type: stove and nut and some bit
Other Heating: Propain

Post by mntbugy » Sun. Feb. 16, 2020 6:52 pm

Nice find on the smoke pipe oven.

Might work faster on wood exhaust.

 
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Sunny Boy
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Posts: 20502
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
Location: Central NY
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Post by Sunny Boy » Wed. May. 06, 2020 2:05 pm

Great find, Dana.

I was just thinking the same as Artie. Does a coal stove exhaust have enough high temp and heat volume to be able to reach most baking temps, with all that metal surface area, or does it have to burn wood to get up to baking temps ?

For low, slow baking such as meats, I think it'd be a real good addition to any non-cook stove.

Paul

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Sunny Boy
New Member
Posts: 20502
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
Location: Central NY
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Post by Sunny Boy » Wed. May. 06, 2020 2:14 pm

Speaking of baking,.... one more use for Cookin' With Coal. Cooking Corona cooties of N95 type masks.

They protect far better than the cloth or surgical style face masks, but you can't wash the paper-like N95 face type masks. And they are not easy to get replacements. What I have is from my shop order a few years ago for sandblasting work.

I have used a hair dryer, but it's easier to just put the used mask up on the mantel shelf over the firebox end. As you can see by the aiming red dot on the shelf next to the mask, it gets more than hot enough for the 134-140F temp recommended to kill the Coronavirus.

Paul

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mntbugy
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Posts: 1122
Joined: Fri. Dec. 23, 2016 2:36 pm
Location: clearfield,pa
Hand Fed Coal Stove: D S 1500, Warm Moring 400
Baseburners & Antiques: Art Garland 145,GW114 ,Clarion 115, Vestal 20 Globe,New Royal22 Globe, Red Cross Oak 56,Acme Ventiduct 38,Radiant Airblast 626,Home Airblast 62,Moores #7,Moores 3way
Coal Size/Type: stove and nut and some bit
Other Heating: Propain

Post by mntbugy » Wed. May. 06, 2020 7:00 pm

Stanley #2 rotating cook top stove 1832.
From the other place,and marketplace.

 
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Sunny Boy
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Posts: 20502
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
Location: Central NY
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Post by Sunny Boy » Thu. May. 07, 2020 10:04 am

Interesting concept, Artie. I assume the lid was removed and pots/pans would sit in the hole size closet to fit ?

Firebox looks like it's for wood only -was there any type of grate ?

Adds new meaning to the old term, "Crank up the heat." :D

Paul

 
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mntbugy
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Posts: 1122
Joined: Fri. Dec. 23, 2016 2:36 pm
Location: clearfield,pa
Hand Fed Coal Stove: D S 1500, Warm Moring 400
Baseburners & Antiques: Art Garland 145,GW114 ,Clarion 115, Vestal 20 Globe,New Royal22 Globe, Red Cross Oak 56,Acme Ventiduct 38,Radiant Airblast 626,Home Airblast 62,Moores #7,Moores 3way
Coal Size/Type: stove and nut and some bit
Other Heating: Propain

Post by mntbugy » Thu. May. 07, 2020 12:19 pm

Sunny Boy wrote:
Thu. May. 07, 2020 10:04 am
Interesting concept, Artie. I assume the lid was removed and pots/pans would sit in the hole size closet to fit ?

Firebox looks like it's for wood only -was there any type of grate ?

Adds new meaning to the old term, "Crank up the heat." :D

Paul
Correct.

Wood only.

Seller got excited when they heard one was in a musuem, then he found out one sold at auction for 250, complete and in better shape.
Guess they will have to keep working for a living.

 
Hoytman
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Posts: 1897
Joined: Wed. Jan. 18, 2017 11:30 pm
Location: swOH near a little town where the homes are mobile and the cars aren’t
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 354
Coal Size/Type: nut coal
Other Heating: electric, wood, oil

Post by Hoytman » Sun. Jun. 14, 2020 11:47 pm



I knew Schwartz Manufacturing had built a modern coal cook stove utilizing a Hitzer 55, but I didn’t know there was any other modern coal cook stoves. This one happens to burn coal and wood and comes with a wood plate to sit on top of the grates.


Also, I was looking at wood cookstoves and noticed there are at least two EPA certified wood cook stoves now. One is. J.A. Roby and the other is a very nice and heavily built Esse 990 that has not one, but two catalytic converters. Thought I’d mention that for you cook stove guru’s out there.

 
Hoytman
New Member
Posts: 1897
Joined: Wed. Jan. 18, 2017 11:30 pm
Location: swOH near a little town where the homes are mobile and the cars aren’t
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 354
Coal Size/Type: nut coal
Other Heating: electric, wood, oil

Post by Hoytman » Mon. Jun. 15, 2020 12:29 am


 
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Sunny Boy
New Member
Posts: 20502
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
Location: Central NY
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Post by Sunny Boy » Mon. Jun. 15, 2020 7:56 am

Thanks Bill, but these modern ranges have been discussed before. I looked closely at these Amish built ones and also foreign made multi-fuel ranges, for my daughter when she was having her house built a few years ago.

The problem with them is they are designed to be wood ranges first, which they are very good at, but the trade off is, that makes them not so good with coal.

Because of the glass doors they can't hold as much coal as they can wood. So you don't get the longer burn times of coal for such large fireboxes.

The ash pans are fine for wood, but on the small side for coal. The ash drawer is very low so difficult to clean out any ash that gets outside the pan so you can fit the pan back in after emptying.

The shaker grates can't be rotated to break up and dump clinkers daily before they grow too large and firm to get rid of easily. They are the type that need riddling and flossing from below because there is no clinker door access at grate top level, so knifing the firebed is not an option. Which means getting on hands and knees to work up through the grates from the small ash pan door.

In the video the guy mentions quality good enough to last 30 years. The antique ones far exceed that, so much more economical and retains much more resale value. My Glenwood is 117 years old and still going strong. Up until recently Wilson was using a Glenwood range from 1879 for heat and cooking. When I saw it up close, he had it running and it was still in very good condition.

And the modern ones cost more than many restored antique ranges that can be easier to use with coal, because they were designed for coal. It's easier to burn wood in a stove designed for coal than it is to burn coal in a wood stove.

Paul

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