Cookin' With Coal

Thanks to Randy once again.

That show "The Victorian Kitchen" on YouTube, was very interesting. Not a typical cooking show, but more about what it took to run a large kitchen, in the early 1900's.

As the companion to it there's "The Victorian Garden". It's a 12 episode series about what went on each month of the year in the early 1900 estate gardens that had to supply the kitchen of a large house. Including how they used large coal boilers to heat the green houses. Plus, how they even used the walls around the garden to provide food for different times of the year.

Paul

Well, with winter still here, we're still getting freezing nights and chilly days. Yesterday was in the 40's, overcast and damp. A good day to relax and watch those YouTube videos about a Victorian kitchen cookin' with coal.

Also a good day to have a pot of soup simmering on the range while it idles along keeping the chill out. Home made broccoli cheddar soup. Slow cooked to almost as thick as stew - yummmm !

And it was even better with Randy's recipe peasant bread for dunking !!!!

Paul

Sunny Boy wrote:Well, with winter still here, we're still getting freezing nights and chilly days. Yesterday was in the 40's, overcast and damp. A good day to relax and watch those YouTube videos about a Victorian kitchen cookin' with coal.

Also a good day to have a pot of soup simmering on the range while it idles along keeping the chill out. Home made broccoli cheddar soup. Slow cooked to almost as thick as stew - yummmm !

And it was even better with Randy's recipe peasant bread for dunking !!!!

Paul

I wish I had the cook stove in my house right now. I was out of town for four days so the coal stove in the house went out. I don't think I am going to light it again, unless it gets really cold. I lit the oil lamps last night and it was amazing how much they warmed the house up.

I bought some new stove pipe to re-do the cook stove. I wanted to replace the elbow with a clean out "T" so I don't have to take the stove pipe all apart to clean.

That soup and peasant bread sounds SOOOO good right now. I think I am going to have to light a fire in the garage and cook something out there today.

BTW, I got the DVD of "Fannie's Last Supper", it was a very good show. I could not believe how hot they cooked everything on that stove, they were just shoving the wood to it!

Randy

I'd have liked to see more about the stove, like they do on the Victorian Kitchen show you mentioned.

I suspect that big range they were cooking on was really a coal range and they didn't know how to work the dampers to get the best use of it with wood, without roasting the kitchen too.

I like the part where one of the cooks takes the room thermometer that was sitting on top of the running air conditioner and it's reading in the 90's.

Reminded me of a summer job I had as a teenager working in the small kitchen of an Italian deli. With all the cooking and baking trying to keep up with their hot sandwich menu, the large stove kept it about 110 degrees in that kitchen. My job was scrubbing large aluminum pots, pans, and hot table trays. Then every hour I'd have to go in the walk-in cooler to restock the beer, soda, and milk shelves. Never had to worry about falling asleep on that job. Stepping into that cooler was a better wake-up than a whole pot of coffee !

Paul

[quote="Sunny Boy"]I'd have liked to see more about the stove, like they do on the Victorian Kitchen show you mentioned.

I suspect that big range they were cooking on was really a coal range and they didn't know how to work the dampers to get the best use of it with wood, without roasting the kitchen too.
You are correct in that suspicion, they said it was a coal range that they converted over to wood. Not sure what they had to convert...when it has coal grates, you can burn wood on them. It is when it is a wood stove that you have to convert it over to coal grates. Having said that, I am not familiar with that stove so I am not sure of the situation.

I like the part where one of the cooks takes the room thermometer that was sitting on top of the running air conditioner and it's reading in the 90's.

I liked that oval griddle that fit right over the top of the firebox. I have an old grate from a bbq grill that I put on mine...it works

Reminded me of a summer job I had as a teenager working in the small kitchen of an Italian deli. With all the cooking and baking trying to keep up with their hot sandwich menu, the large stove kept it about 110 degrees in that kitchen. My job was scrubbing large aluminum pots, pans, and hot table trays. Then every hour I'd have to go in the walk-in cooler to restock the beer, soda, and milk shelves. Never had to worry about falling asleep on that job. Stepping into that cooler was a better wake-up than a whole pot of coffee !

When I first got out of high school I got a job at Nestle`. I had to mop the ovens where they kept the large bins of chocolate melted and then go to the refrigerated section where the chocolate came out of the molds. I have never had more colds in my life as I did on that job!

Randy

What a wonderful bunch we have on this site. I learn something new every day.

Wilson (member wilsons woodstoves) has been working on a project to make new fire bricks for ranges. I received a box this week of several bricks to trial fit in my Glenwood range. However it seems that mother nature is not cooperating, so the range won't be shut down just yet.

In with the bricks was a strange looking gadget. It's kinda like the praying mantis of stove cover lifters !

After I figured out it wouldn't bite me ,I tried it and it works. Its nicely decorative and cool in a unique way. (see pictures).

Then in a pm today, Wilson let me know it's special purpose. Not only can it lift the round covers, or I's ,or T's, it can lift three at a time. If anyone has ever burned long wood in a kitchen range and wants to get as full a load as possible, the best way is through the top, but that means moving plates one at a time with the standard lifter.

With this lifter it can lift up both covers over the firebox by just hooking it into the "T" support plate in between them and then squeeze the handles together as you lift.

All these years I thought I'd seen all the tools one would need to operate a range, both wood or coal, but leave it to a long time wood burner and stove restorer to teach this old dog a new trick.

Thank you again Wilson !

Paul

Edit. My apologies. I didn't realize how poor the pictures were until I uploaded them. Changed camera to correct setting, reshot and uploaded better pix.

Enjoy.

Paul

Sunny Boy wrote:What a wonderful bunch we have on this site. I learn something new every day.

Wilson (member wilsons woodstoves) has been working on a project to make new fire bricks for ranges. I received a box this week of several bricks to trial fit in my Glenwood range. However it seems that mother nature is not cooperating, so the range won't be shut down just yet.

In with the bricks was a strange looking gadget. It's kinda like the praying mantis of stove cover lifters !

After I figured out it wouldn't bite me ,I tried it and it works. Its nicely decorative and cool in a unique way. (see pictures).

Then in a pm today, Wilson let me know it's special purpose. Not only can it lift the round covers, or I's ,or T's, it can lift three at a time. If anyone has ever burned long wood in a kitchen range and wants to get as full a load as possible, the best way is through the top, but that means moving plates one at a time with the standard lifter.

With this lifter it can lift up both covers over the firebox by just hooking it into the "T" support plate in between them and then squeeze the handles togeter as you lift.

All these years I thought I'd seen all the tools one would need to operate a range, both wood or coal, but leave it to a long time wood burner and stove restorer to teach this old dog a new trick.

Thank you again Wilson !

Paul

Now there is a tool I would love to get my hands on. I am always lifting them off individually since I converted the stove to coal. I cannot use the front loading door so now I have to put the wood in through the top. Paul, you have all the good toys! LOL
Randy

My range is the same. When used for coal, there's a fire brick and a removable cast iron plate in the way of the loading door for wood.

That brick and plate can be removed, and still have the other fire bricks to protect the stove iron, but because the bricks are cast with interlocking tabs that fit into a recess in the bricks next to them, I can't take it out without taking out the top plate stanchion/brick holding clamp on top of the oven and a few other bricks first, then put back all but that front brick.

Technically that brick behind the loading door is called the right end brick, or number 1 brick.

The bricks are numbered and/or labeled by placement. And the numbers go counterclockwise when viewed from above. But unlike what we think of as the front of the range (the loading and oven door side) the firebox brick labeling is viewed from standing at the left end, in front of the ash drawer door shelf.

Glenwood (and maybe others?) refer to what we would think of as the left end, as being the "front" of the range. My guess is it's a hold over from the earlier days of "cook stoves", when you stood at that end to cook, the firebox and oven doors were on each side, and the stack was at the opposite end from the ash drawer door ???

Paul

Not to expose my ignorance here, but can you safely keep a fire going in these old coal fired cook stoves year round, so you can cook on (and in) them year round?

lsayre wrote:Not to expose my ignorance here, but can you safely keep a fire going in these old coal fired cook stoves year round, so you can cook on (and in) them year round?

If you are burning coal in them, it would be dependent on the draft of your chimney. If the chimney has good draft, you sure could, if you could stand the heat in the kitchen. Back in the day, they would move the stove outside to the summer kitchen (usually a porch) because of the heat they put out. With wood, once you get a lot of heat going up the chimney that creates a good draft. Since my stove is out in my garage, I do use it during the summer as well...especially when canning. During the summer, I use wood in the stove because the fire does not last as long and you can let it go out when done cooking on it.

I know there are people on here that have said they have a hot water heater/laundry stove they keep going on coal the year round. Again, depends on your chimney.

Randy

Larry,

Yes, you could use coal during the warm weather, but it's very tough to get it going and it burns far longer than wood, thus doing more heating of the kitchen. By the time you get the coal going you could likely cook the meal with just using the heat from the kindling used to get the coal going.

As Randy said, it's much easier to just switch over to using wood when the stove isn't also needed for heating. Much faster starting and burn out when done.

And, splitting the pieces of wood smaller works even better for quicker starting and just burning long enough to cook with, then let it burn out.

Plus, the type of wood and how dry it is can help too. I apologize for not remembering who it was that told me, . . but someone on here recommended using poplar wood in the warm months. Said it burns quickly, not a lingering fire. I want to see if I can find some locally and try it.

Plus, one of the features of the ranges is that you can reduce the area of the range that is getting heated by using the many dampers. Using no primary and just the secondary damper in the broiler door, along with the check damper near the base of the stack, the oven damper can be left in direct mode yet not have a roaring fire with wood. That way only the cooking surface near the firebox end of the range is getting hot enough to cook with. That greatly reduces the surface area that can radiate heat. It would be like leaving a base burner in direct mode. It then doesn't heat the lower part of the stove and more of the heat goes up the stack.

And range options can help. Ranges with the optional water reservoir give more control over reducing, or increasing the heat output. With the range in indirect mode (oven on), we often shut off the damper to the water reservoir in the warmer weather. That turns the roughly 7 square feet of the water reservoir jacket into somewhat of a heat shield for the right end of the range, instead of that much surface area being a heat radiator. That reduces the heat radiating surface area of the range by about 20% and makes a noticeable difference in how hot the kitchen gets.

Also as Randy pointed out they often moved the stoves out to a Summer kitchen so that they weren't heating the house. The forerunner of our modern day BBQ grills.

The old cook book I have from 1900 recommends the portable type ranges, so that they can be more easily moved out of the winter kitchen. They don't show pictures of what they mean by portable, so I assume it's not the large built-in, or cabinet style ranges, some of which even had a duct from the ash area down through the floor to an ash can in the basement. All of which are not meant to be moved twice a year. Some folks preferred the smaller stoves known as cook stoves, or the smaller ranges like the Glenwood model F that Wilson has, and brought them along to their summer camps.

If there was baking to be done, then even with just using wood the stove had to run in indirect mode to heat the oven, thus more hot stove surface area was also heating the kitchen. Probably one of the reasons they often did all the baking on one day.

Paul

The old cook book I have from 1900 recommends the portable type ranges, so that they can be more easily moved out of the winter kitchen. They don't show pictures of what they mean by portable, so I assume it's not the large built-in, or cabinet style ranges, some of which even had a duct from the ash area down through the floor to an ash can in the basement. All of which are not meant to be moved twice a year. Some folks preferred the smaller stoves known as cook stoves, or the smaller ranges like the Glenwood model F that Wilson has, and brought them along to their summer camps.

If there was baking to be done, then even with just using wood the stove had to run in indirect mode to heat the oven, thus more hot stove surface area was also heating the kitchen. Probably one of the reasons they often did all the baking on one day.

Here is an example of what might be considered a summer stove, in fact the Hess company called it their summer stove. Portable ovens just sit on top of the stove to do the baking. My Dad always told me my Grandmother use to do her baking on Wednesday and he loved to smell the kitchen when coming in from doing chores. Grandma had a Kalamazoo cook stove with the warming ovens.

Randy

For there having been so many of them, those smaller stoves are rare today. My guess is many were turned in during the scrap drives of WWI and WWII ????

Having to move the stove in and out of the house, or put up with the heat in summer made the "dual fuel" or "combo" stoves very popular. Much more practical if there was access to lighting/cooking gas like many cities and even small towns had by 1900.

My fiancée's brother and sister-in-law use their coal/wood and gas combo range all year round. Four coal/wood covers to cook with on the left end with an oven down below next to the firebox, much like their predecessors. And four gas burners added on the right with a gas oven and gas broiler up top.

A 42 inch Glenwood Gold Medal is about the only range that would get me to ever consider giving up my Sunny Glenwood.

Melissa, put down that frying pan - I only said " ... get me to consider".

Paul

It doesn't hurt that the stove is very pretty to look at too.

It's interesting to see not just the evolution of the stove but the advertising as well.

franco b wrote:It doesn't hurt that the stove is very pretty to look at too.

It's interesting to see not just the evolution of the stove but the advertising as well.

Yes, many of these old stoves seem to have been designed with the same idea in mind of a quote from architect Louis Sullivan's book, " ... form ever follows function.... "

Paul