Is Warm Morning Over-Firing?

Modern and vintage hand fired coal stove are similar to a wood stove and in some cases can burn either. They need to be regulated and fed by hand usually every 12 to 24 hours depending on your usage. They require no power to operate making them ideal for rural settings with long power outages.
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Lightning
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Joined: Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 9:51 am
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Overmodified/Bored out Clayton 1537
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Awesome Size
Location: Olean, NY

Post Sun. Sep. 15, 2013 9:02 pm

I see two remedies.

#1 tighten up the air leaks.
#2 control your draft better

In my mind #1, would take priority over #2

Personally, I would do both. :D

AKShadow
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Posts: 88
Joined: Wed. Jan. 12, 2011 12:05 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 523
Coal Size/Type: Sub-bituminous, stove
Location: Fairbanks, AK

Post Sun. Sep. 15, 2013 9:34 pm

Ok Ok, I'll look into an MPD and see if bringing the draft down does the trick.

Maybe next season I'll take her apart and seal it up as well. I may throw a gasket on the loading and ash doors just for giggles.

Still no takers on the double-baro idea?

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Lightning
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Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Overmodified/Bored out Clayton 1537
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Awesome Size
Location: Olean, NY

Post Mon. Sep. 16, 2013 1:58 am

There has been controversy over using two barometric dampers on one flue. I use a MPD and baro combination occasionally in the coldest parts of winter when my baro alone won't keep it under a .04. When you said yours is set to the max setting to achieve a .04 what does that mean exactly? You can't move the weight out any further on the baro door to lower the draft more?

What kind of baro is it? On mine, I put washers behind the weight to make it more sensitive. It's a Field Controls model RC.

AKShadow
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Posts: 88
Joined: Wed. Jan. 12, 2011 12:05 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 523
Coal Size/Type: Sub-bituminous, stove
Location: Fairbanks, AK

Post Mon. Sep. 16, 2013 12:09 pm

Lightning,

The Baro is a Field Controls B-34T-J, it came with the tee. I've adjusted the mechanism to give the least draft possible, and have bottomed out the adjustment which brings the weight smack against the pivot plate. This did however get me to .04. But like Coalturkey and you have suggested, the MPD will give me that further adjustment if needed. I just don't like the idea of manual adjustment that leaves room for operator error. I like engineering myself out of the problem as much as possible :D

Do you remember what others have said against two baros? I'd ask the local shops here but they all seem to be completely incompetent and inconsistent with information.

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AKShadow
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Posts: 88
Joined: Wed. Jan. 12, 2011 12:05 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 523
Coal Size/Type: Sub-bituminous, stove
Location: Fairbanks, AK

Post Mon. Sep. 16, 2013 12:10 pm

So, with the added washers, you were able to increase the weight and thus gain a more sensitive adjustment. Hmmm, sounds like it might be worth a try...

AKShadow
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Posts: 88
Joined: Wed. Jan. 12, 2011 12:05 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 523
Coal Size/Type: Sub-bituminous, stove
Location: Fairbanks, AK

Post Mon. Sep. 16, 2013 12:15 pm

But thinking through this, in my case (model B-34TJ), adding weight or lightening the weight won't get less draft since the volume of air is already at its max. So I either need to add more air volume escaping into the chimney, or restrict the flow with the MPD. :x

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wsherrick
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Base Heater, Crawford Base Heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford Base Heater, Glenwood, Stanley Argand
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut, Stove Size
Location: High In The Poconos

Post Mon. Sep. 16, 2013 3:08 pm

You must have a pipe damper for this stove. Put it within two feet of the exhaust collar. The hydrocarbon gas is where you get most of the heat in Bituminous Coal. So, it requires a different burning method than Anthracite.
If you pack the stove full of raw coal then you are going to rapidly produce large volumes of flammable gas. More than the stove can handle. Most of the heat value will be lost in unburned gasses and soot production. The gas that burns will cause a spike in temperature, much like stuffing a wood stove full of wood.
Another thing you have to remember is these stoves have a huge mass of brick in them. It takes a while for all of that brick to get hot. When it does, the stove will burn the gasses as designed, but; all of that mass will radiate a lot of heat. The stove is also designed to do that. The large mass of bricks will, by design; level out the up and down heat production of the Bituminous Coal.
Try this and see if it works. Hopefully, it will.
Load the stove with small charges of coal at a time. This will allow the hot bricks in the stove to burn off the gas at a rate it can handle and you should be able to maintain a cooler fire. It's a little more effort, but; that's the nature of the fuel you are using.
You just have to try different approaches and carefully observe what happens afterward. Soon you will be able to modify your operation methods to get the result you want. This stuff is part science and part art. That's the neat and compelling aspect of using a stove versus just turning a dial.

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michaelanthony
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant 2310, gold marc box stove, vogelzang pot belly coat rack
Baseburners & Antiques: Home Sparkle 12
Coal Size/Type: Coal Contractor's stove, a little Kimmels 'nut
Other Heating: Very cold FHA oil furnace
Location: millinocket,me.
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Post Mon. Sep. 16, 2013 3:36 pm

AKShadow wrote:But thinking through this, in my case (model B-34TJ), adding weight or lightening the weight won't get less draft since the volume of air is already at its max. So I either need to add more air volume escaping into the chimney, or restrict the flow with the MPD. :x
How about a 6" to 8" reducer and an 8" T and baro and 8" pipe to chimney...just my $.02.
never yell through a screen...you'll strain your voice.

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Lightning
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Posts: 8304
Joined: Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 9:51 am
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Overmodified/Bored out Clayton 1537
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Awesome Size
Location: Olean, NY

Post Mon. Sep. 16, 2013 7:37 pm

AKShadow wrote:But thinking through this, in my case (model B-34TJ), adding weight or lightening the weight won't get less draft since the volume of air is already at its max. So I either need to add more air volume escaping into the chimney, or restrict the flow with the MPD. :x
Oh I see, the impression I get is that you can hold the baro door wide open and it won't drop below a .04. Well then, I'm not against trying 2 baros on 1 flue pipe. It makes perfect sense to me. It has come up before but was thrown under the bus saying it wouldn't help. I don't agree with that, but I haven't tried it either. Until proven otherwise, I think it would help in your situation. I say try it and post your results :D

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Lightning
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Posts: 8304
Joined: Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 9:51 am
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Overmodified/Bored out Clayton 1537
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Awesome Size
Location: Olean, NY

Post Mon. Sep. 16, 2013 7:40 pm

michaelanthony wrote:
AKShadow wrote:But thinking through this, in my case (model B-34TJ), adding weight or lightening the weight won't get less draft since the volume of air is already at its max. So I either need to add more air volume escaping into the chimney, or restrict the flow with the MPD. :x
How about a 6" to 8" reducer and an 8" T and baro and 8" pipe to chimney...just my $.02.
I like this idea too. A bigger baro is gonna get you more air volume which should cut pull on the stove.

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wsherrick
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Posts: 3731
Joined: Wed. Jun. 18, 2008 6:04 am
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Base Heater, Crawford Base Heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford Base Heater, Glenwood, Stanley Argand
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut, Stove Size
Location: High In The Poconos

Post Mon. Sep. 16, 2013 8:22 pm

Lightning wrote:
michaelanthony wrote: How about a 6" to 8" reducer and an 8" T and baro and 8" pipe to chimney...just my $.02.
I like this idea too. A bigger baro is gonna get you more air volume which should cut pull on the stove.
And also massive amounts of soot production. You over cool the exhaust you get instant gobs of soot clogging goodness.

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Short Bus
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Kewanee boiler with Anchor stoker
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut / Sub-bituminous C
Other Heating: Propane wall furnace back up only
Location: Cantwell Alaska

Post Tue. Sep. 17, 2013 1:50 am

I'm looking at getting one of these stoves for power outages and such, and I'm reading this and making plans to put a Manual Damper on my stove.
If it was as easy as burning oil, everybody would be burning coal.
Forum reality, If you ask wheres a good steak house? You will be informed that what you really want is pork chops.
Enjoy it for what it is worth.

AKShadow
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Posts: 88
Joined: Wed. Jan. 12, 2011 12:05 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 523
Coal Size/Type: Sub-bituminous, stove
Location: Fairbanks, AK

Post Wed. Sep. 18, 2013 4:06 pm

Im planning on putting an MPD on this weekend and will post results!

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