Newbie Looking to Install Coal Stove in Basement.

Modern and vintage hand fired coal stove are similar to a wood stove and in some cases can burn either. They need to be regulated and fed by hand usually every 12 to 24 hours depending on your usage. They require no power to operate making them ideal for rural settings with long power outages.
coalnewbie
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Posts: 6199
Joined: Sat. May. 24, 2008 4:26 pm
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 180K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Invader 2
Baseburners & Antiques: Wings Best, Glenwood #8(x2) Herald 116x
Coal Size/Type: Rice,
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22
Location: Chester, NY

Post Sun. Jul. 07, 2013 3:48 pm

So when we don't agree with your pedantic assumptions we are beyond help. Right.... I am going over to see him. Over and out no need to lock.
Posted by an unreasonable adult.

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freetown fred
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut
Location: Freetown,NY 13803

Post Sun. Jul. 07, 2013 4:00 pm

NOPE--talk him into whatever application is going to work best with his house lay out as I'm sure you will anyway ;)
Rob R. wrote:Boy this thread has gone to pieces. The poor guy is probably ordering another TT load of firewood right now.

Oddly enough, I am headed out the door to go quote a neighbor on a coal boiler install. He has been heating his house with a pellet stove for 4 years and is sick of a cold basement, scorching living room, and chilly bedrooms/bathrooms. Should I try to talk him into 2-3 hand fed stoves?
"A people that values it's privileges above it's principals, soon loses both"--Dwight D Eisenhower

franco b
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea
Location: Kent CT

Post Sun. Jul. 07, 2013 4:02 pm

Rob R. wrote: Should I try to talk him into 2-3 hand fed stoves?
No. What you do and do well is the right solution for most people as long as they can afford it and any advantages of one or two hand fired stoves has no appeal or might not be suitable for that particular house.

franco b
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea
Location: Kent CT

Post Sun. Jul. 07, 2013 4:12 pm

Wiz wrote:This thread has gone from help to beyond help. Reminds me when I was in preschool, my dad is better then your dad. Surprised it didn't get lock yet. :flush:
Sorry there was nothing of worth for you.

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VigIIPeaBurner
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Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Casting Vigilant II 2310
Other Heating: #2 Oil Furnace
Location: Pequest River Valley, Warren Co NJ

Post Sun. Jul. 07, 2013 4:16 pm

Locked? It hasn't veered off topic or got nasty enough - yet! Here goes …

I have my smallish radiant hand fed somewhat centered in a ~700ft^2 room with 9’ ceilings that is insulated with 18” of fiberglass batting. Maybe you can get the picture of my layout but the net is the house is set up to move heat from the stove. The stove room is on the east side. In winter, the room stays ~72* except when sitting with 10’ of the stove. Ceiling temps are in the 80s. To the immediate west through a 6’ x 7.5’ opening is a dining room that opens to a two story foyer and an opening (no header, ceiling dumps to the foyer and dinette) into the dinette/kitchen/ family room filling out the rest of the north west side of the house. Tucked in by its self some 50 straight line distance from the stove is a parlor room (no doors) in the south west corner that opens to a hall off the foyer and to the family room. It is always the coldest room (low 60s, high 50s) that we rarely use. Surrounding the second floor of the foyer is a walk way. The four bedroom doors face this open foyer. Open a bedroom door and it warms from the ~68* heat trapped at the top of the foyer. They are never very cold. The heat I feel in the dinette, several corners and two rooms away, feels great compared to the same temperature produced by the oil fired warm air furnace. This comfort difference is because of the radiant heat source.

IMHO, this thread peppered with creative wording defending one heating device over another has overlooked a few common physical facts. Heat moves, more than one way or another. Usually for us it’s a combination of radiant and convective movements. We can influence how it moves and how it gets there. Sometimes, the basic laws of the physic that supports this movement are overlooked. Radiant heat is more directional in relation to the space it comes from and the surface area of the radiant source (how much stove/baseboard/radiator surface area). Radiant waves don’t go around corners. They warm objects in direct line of the stove. Like sound waves, they bounce around via the objects in their path, their intensity diminishing based on the capacity of the source, distance and number turns involved in traveling to distant points. Once the stove heats an object in direct line with the stove, the heated object then has enough energy to re-radiate that energy. Both radiant and convective energy is moved to the distant rooms by the constant bath of radiant heat from my little radiant stove constantly chugging out the BTUs.

A central system places numerous satellite BTU sources throughout the house and evens out the spread of heating energy. A single (or multiple) stove(s) has to be sized and placed in a space that will allow the heat to move to where it’s needed (duh!) I’ll never give up the Vigilant II (no electric needed) and plan to install a central warm air system to piggy-back on the warm air oil furnace duct system. One or the other and likely both will do the trick but coal will be primary. If I ever replace the Vigilant, it will be with a larger baseburner.
Well, that was my long-winded shot at summing this thread up, hopefully without any hidden barbs. Okay, fire away! I can take it :roll:
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freetown fred
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Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut
Location: Freetown,NY 13803

Post Sun. Jul. 07, 2013 4:19 pm

Can't---I like it :)
"A people that values it's privileges above it's principals, soon loses both"--Dwight D Eisenhower

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Wiz
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Posts: 926
Joined: Sun. Nov. 27, 2011 8:45 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(
Location: Tannersville Pa

Post Sun. Jul. 07, 2013 4:53 pm

franco b wrote:
Wiz wrote:This thread has gone from help to beyond help. Reminds me when I was in preschool, my dad is better then your dad. Surprised it didn't get lock yet. :flush:
Sorry there was nothing of worth for you.
I wouldn't assume looking into my reply that this thread wasn't informational. Everyone has opinions and advice from their own experience on what system maybe the correct solution. Until someone looks at orrsmills layout we could only speculate at this time. I'm just saying it seems like we're beating a dead horse. :bang:
Randy
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franco b
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Posts: 8433
Joined: Wed. Nov. 05, 2008 5:11 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea
Location: Kent CT

Post Sun. Jul. 07, 2013 5:03 pm

VigIIPeaBurner wrote:Okay, fire away! I can take it
Excellent post, but you left out one thing that you yourself consider pleasing, and that is the aesthetic appeal of seeing the fire. And it is important otherwise there would not be so many mostly useless fireplaces in newer and even older houses. Pleasing art is an important thing to have around us and what pleases us can differ widely. What could be more impractical than an old MG or Jaguar sports car yet I would love to own one, or even a Model T for that matter. Hand fired stoves can have a similar appeal lessening to a great degree any drawbacks.

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coalkirk
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Joined: Wed. May. 17, 2006 8:12 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1981 EFM DF520
Coal Size/Type: anthracite/rice coal
Location: Forest Hill MD

Post Sun. Jul. 07, 2013 5:08 pm

No reason at all to consider locking this thread. Spirited debate, stayed on topic and no name calling. Can we all agree we like our beer cold and our fires hot?
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. Winston Churchill

"I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." —General George S. Patton

Burning rice coal in a 1981 EFM DF520, nut coal in a hand fired Jotul 507.

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Wiz
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(
Location: Tannersville Pa

Post Sun. Jul. 07, 2013 5:17 pm

coalkirk wrote: Can we all agree we like our beer cold and our fires hot?
Agree :cheers:
Randy
If you have time to make a post looking for free advice, then show some appreciation and say thank you.

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VigIIPeaBurner
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Posts: 2293
Joined: Fri. Jan. 11, 2008 10:49 am
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Casting Vigilant II 2310
Other Heating: #2 Oil Furnace
Location: Pequest River Valley, Warren Co NJ

Post Sun. Jul. 07, 2013 5:52 pm

coalkirk wrote:No reason at all to consider locking this thread. Spirited debate, stayed on topic and no name calling. Can we all agree we like our beer cold and our fires hot?
Now hold on just one minute there, does this mean we ALL have to have a fridge in every room too :?:
  • :funny: toothy
    • :cheers:
3 Videos: Chavez can shov(el) it . . . & he's @ it full time now!

franco b
Site Moderator
Posts: 8433
Joined: Wed. Nov. 05, 2008 5:11 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea
Location: Kent CT

Post Sun. Jul. 07, 2013 5:55 pm

Wiz wrote: I wouldn't assume looking into my reply that this thread wasn't informational. Everyone has opinions and advice from their own experience on what system maybe the correct solution. Until someone looks at orrsmills layout we could only speculate at this time. I'm just saying it seems like we're beating a dead horse.

I have been trying to point out some of the advantages of a hand fired stove and also of an ineffable aspect, which means hard to define, that certainly exists. Many of us feel it and many don't.

In the house in question there is only one room (the great room) that defines the house. In my opinion a radiant stove (new or old) depending on the style of the room, and handsomely installed will be the most comfortable and add to the luster of the room. The rest of the house is of much less importance. Do whatever with it. Once the decision for a great room is made everything should revolve around it along with problems inherent with it.

Falling Water by Frank Loyd Wright is stunningly beautiful yet not easy to live with and millions are being spent to preserve it. Ineffability has a price.

Certainly a boiler in the basement will do a decent job but there is a price to pay there too.

orrsmills
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Joined: Tue. Jul. 02, 2013 8:08 am
Stove/Furnace Make: Quadra-Fire
Stove/Furnace Model: 4100I

Post Sun. Jul. 07, 2013 8:03 pm

Hey guys I step away for a day and look at all that's been going on. Fourth of July weekend and a lot of fireworks on this board. Again, I appreciate everyone's help. Here are some pics of my house until newbie and DJ can come over for a look see.
Attachments
IMG_1097[1].JPG
One area where heat escapes to
IMG_1096[1].JPG
My big ceiling fan
IMG_1098[1].JPG
Current wood stove
IMG_1099[1].JPG

coalnewbie
Member
Posts: 6199
Joined: Sat. May. 24, 2008 4:26 pm
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 180K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Invader 2
Baseburners & Antiques: Wings Best, Glenwood #8(x2) Herald 116x
Coal Size/Type: Rice,
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22
Location: Chester, NY

Post Sun. Jul. 07, 2013 8:41 pm

OMG, it's beautiful, congratulations on your wonderful home. I will call dlj and schedule something.

Regards

Simon
Posted by an unreasonable adult.

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Wiz
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Posts: 926
Joined: Sun. Nov. 27, 2011 8:45 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(
Location: Tannersville Pa

Post Sun. Jul. 07, 2013 8:54 pm

Going to call it like this from looking at the pictures. I would replace wood stove and put coal stove in it's spot if it was me. Yeah there is pros and cons on either way, but room wouldn't be the same if it was in basement. That's my story and sticking with it :P
Randy
If you have time to make a post looking for free advice, then show some appreciation and say thank you.

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