Manual Pipe Dampers .. How, Why, When

Modern and vintage hand fired coal stove are similar to a wood stove and in some cases can burn either. They need to be regulated and fed by hand usually every 12 to 24 hours depending on your usage. They require no power to operate making them ideal for rural settings with long power outages.
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freetown fred
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut
Location: Freetown,NY 13803

Post Thu. Dec. 12, 2013 6:39 pm

Come on Paul--by God, they've even taken the MAGIC out of magic cause you can watch the boob tube & they tell ya how it was done--is too much knowledge detrimental to the world--I guess we'll find out in case anyone accidently or not, dissolves us :clap: toothy Ps-- in the cold weather I open her up for tending but other then that, she's totally closed--never affects my fire box--nor does having her totally open--different settings need different solutions:)
"A people that values it's privileges above it's principals, soon loses both"--Dwight D Eisenhower

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jasonp
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark 3

Post Thu. Dec. 12, 2013 8:19 pm

I have a Harman mark 3 coal stove and Im trying to figure out where to set the Barometric Damper and where to set the manual draft control on the front of the stove. I noticed my stove never really gets hot and neither does my pipe. I have had the Barometric damper OPEN quite a bit thinking it would keep the heat in my house and not the chimney is that how I should keep it, open as much as possible to keep the heat in the house? But Ive read all over the place that many coal burners close off the Barometric damper with foil or remove it all together/never install it. But wouldn't that increase draft which increase the heat lost through the chimney? Should my pipe be hot to the touch? I read one E-how pipe should ideally be 350-400 F. before barometric damper. I feel like I have an overdraft problem not under draft. Any help is appreciated.

franco b
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Location: Kent CT

Post Thu. Dec. 12, 2013 9:55 pm

jasonp wrote:I have a Harman mark 3 coal stove and Im trying to figure out where to set the Barometric Damper and where to set the manual draft control on the front of the stove. I noticed my stove never really gets hot and neither does my pipe. I have had the Barometric damper OPEN quite a bit thinking it would keep the heat in my house and not the chimney is that how I should keep it, open as much as possible to keep the heat in the house? But Ive read all over the place that many coal burners close off the Barometric damper with foil or remove it all together/never install it. But wouldn't that increase draft which increase the heat lost through the chimney? Should my pipe be hot to the touch? I read one E-how pipe should ideally be 350-400 F. before barometric damper. I feel like I have an overdraft problem not under draft. Any help is appreciated.
The barometric damper is to cut down draft that is too high. If you cut it too much the stove can't burn the coal hot enough. It needs a draft of at least .03 measured with a manometer. Adjust your damper for higher draft and the stove will put out more heat. you don't want to waste heat up the chimney but you need a minimum amount to establish draft and prevent condensation in the chimney. A temperature of 200 degrees on the surface of the pipe about a foot above the stove is about right with a brisk fire.

rberq
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300 with hopper
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Nut
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators (fuel oil); propane
Location: Central Maine

Post Thu. Dec. 12, 2013 10:04 pm

jasonp wrote:I have a Harman mark 3 coal stove and Im trying to figure out where to set the Barometric Damper and where to set the manual draft control on the front of the stove. I noticed my stove never really gets hot and neither does my pipe. I have had the Barometric damper OPEN quite a bit thinking it would keep the heat in my house and not the chimney is that how I should keep it, open as much as possible to keep the heat in the house? But Ive read all over the place that many coal burners close off the Barometric damper with foil or remove it all together/never install it. But wouldn't that increase draft which increase the heat lost through the chimney? Should my pipe be hot to the touch? I read one E-how pipe should ideally be 350-400 F. before barometric damper. I feel like I have an overdraft problem not under draft. Any help is appreciated.
I'm sure we can help, but we may have lots of questions. You can also put more information in your profile -- like where you are located. Who knows, one of us might be nearby.
If you can, post a picture of your stove and pipe and barometric damper. Tell us what your chimney is like -- is it brick, does it run mostly inside the house or is it entirely outside, and so on.
You say the stove and pipe don't get hot. Do you have a magnetic thermometer or infrared thermometer to see what temperature they actually are? -- you really should have one.
Are you having any trouble starting the coal fire and keeping it going?
Do you load the coal to the top of the fire-bricks once you have it burning? (You should.)

Assuming the coal is burning well, AND is filled to the top of the fire-bricks, you could start by sealing the barometric damper with foil -- if the coal is burning well, stove and pipe should both be too hot to touch. Then unseal and adjust the baro. Harman recommends draft of 0.06 to 0.10 for your stove. If your barometric damper has a calibrated scale, set it to about 8 to start, and see how that does. Ideally you would also have a manometer to check the draft, in which case you would go by that rather than by the baro scale (do a search for "manometer" in the box at the top of the screen if you don't know what it is). If draft is too high (baro closed too much), you will lose some heat up the chimney. If draft is too low (baro open too much), you may have trouble keeping the fire burning, and/or the stove may be very slow to respond when you open the spinner to give it more air. You just have to find the sweet spot.

The easy answer to how much to open the inlet spinner is, open it enough to maintain the desired stove temperature, which typically is anywhere from 200 to 600 degrees depending on how much heat you need.

Hope that helps, but feel free to come back with more questions.
Simple answers for simple minds.

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dbsuz05
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Post Fri. Dec. 13, 2013 1:37 am

Each stove will have its own characteristics.... But if you run it like a big carburetor an keep it runnin lean an hot it will save alot of soot cleanup. p.s. watch your chimney, when its comin out clear. thats an efficient burn.

Sunny Boy
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Location: Central NY

Post Fri. Dec. 13, 2013 7:28 am

freetown fred wrote:Come on Paul--by God, they've even taken the MAGIC out of magic cause you can watch the boob tube & they tell ya how it was done--is too much knowledge detrimental to the world--I guess we'll find out in case anyone accidently or not, dissolves us :clap: toothy Ps-- in the cold weather I open her up for tending but other then that, she's totally closed--never affects my fire box--nor does having her totally open--different settings need different solutions:)
Close, but it was a science program. . . . although at times, it seemed like magic to me ! :D

He was the original, long before the "Bill Nye the Science Guy" show.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watch_Mr._Wizard

Paul
So many stoves - so few chimneys. I must be coal-stone crazy.

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Vangellis
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Location: Factoryville, Pa.

Post Sat. Dec. 14, 2013 7:45 pm

Now that's a blast from the past, and yes, it did seem like magic.
Sunny Boy wrote:
freetown fred wrote:Come on Paul--by God, they've even taken the MAGIC out of magic cause you can watch the boob tube & they tell ya how it was done--is too much knowledge detrimental to the world--I guess we'll find out in case anyone accidently or not, dissolves us :clap: toothy Ps-- in the cold weather I open her up for tending but other then that, she's totally closed--never affects my fire box--nor does having her totally open--different settings need different solutions:)
Close, but it was a science program. . . . although at times, it seemed like magic to me ! :D

He was the original, long before the "Bill Nye the Science Guy" show.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watch_Mr._Wizard

Paul
Dream more easy in the chair that really fits you !

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LsFarm
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Location: Michigan

Post Sun. Dec. 22, 2013 12:18 am

freetown fred wrote:Come on Paul--by God, they've even taken the MAGIC out of magic cause you can watch the boob tube & they tell ya how it was done--is too much knowledge detrimental to the world--I guess we'll find out in case anyone accidently or not, dissolves us Ps-- in the cold weather I open her up for tending but other then that, she's totally closed--never affects my fire box--nor does having her totally open--different settings need different solutions:)
OK Fred, for about the 100th time: your stove has an automatic intake air damper, that thinks for you. Your use of the MPD or your attempts in years past to use a baro are completely negated by the Hizer temperature sensing and adjusting air damper. !! :shock: :lol:

So your experiences with what an MPD does, or doesn't do are thrown out the window. Because your thermostatic controlled intake air damper.

Does that clear up any confusion?? :lol: :o

Your buddy,
Greg L.
Burning Pea/Buckwheat through an antique stoker [semi retired SSboiler],
Running an Axeman-Anderson 260M boiler burning Pea, About 150-250#per day
Farming, Fixing, Fabricating and Flying: 'spare time' what's that?

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freetown fred
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Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut
Location: Freetown,NY 13803

Post Sun. Dec. 22, 2013 8:06 am

HUH?????????????? :clap: toothy Point of interest would be that on attempts to keep my MPD open all the time here oh the hill with the wind more often then not showing her pretty face, my back thermo flap will get to tapping and it's the only time I have experienced minimal puff backs--yes the thermo takes care of most of that, but not all. I have tried cracking my ash door vents to no avail--if I open them to much, the stove takes off to much, what I have found to work, is the MPD being closed--hell, I'm not trying to sell MPD's, just stating that in my particular setting--it is what works. I think that even with the bi-metallic thermo, it would work perfectly in an IDEAL setting-- but when they need assistance, in my experience, with my particular setting--the MPD is what works--just sayin
"A people that values it's privileges above it's principals, soon loses both"--Dwight D Eisenhower

rberq
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300 with hopper
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Nut
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators (fuel oil); propane
Location: Central Maine

Post Sun. Dec. 22, 2013 8:26 am

freetown fred wrote: here on the hill with the wind more often then not showing her pretty face, my back thermo flap will get to tapping
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Simple answers for simple minds.

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freetown fred
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Post Sun. Dec. 22, 2013 8:29 am

Thanx rb--sooo, to paraphrase my above post---I just button up my back flap :woot: :clap: toothy
"A people that values it's privileges above it's principals, soon loses both"--Dwight D Eisenhower

chester
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Post Sun. Dec. 22, 2013 10:00 am

And for that Fred we ALL thank you! :up:

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KLook
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Location: Chattanooga, Tenn

Post Sun. Dec. 22, 2013 10:19 am

here on the hill with the wind more often then not showing her pretty face, my back thermo flap will get to tapping
.
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That analogy is quite good, because most of the positives about MPD's emit from that back flap or region. LOL! :lol:
Just kidding, I have used the mpd's extensively with wood over the years. But see no reason to use one when it will adjust itself perfectly, by itself, all day, all night, pretty much no matter what, with a baro.
Fred is ONE 70+ year old man that has a lifetime of experience and knowledge about his application. Some people are just not savvy, may not understand drafts at all, may not realize the dangers of shutting the exhaust of a coal appliance down to much and not have CO detectors. They are best used carefully with full knowledge of the effects on each stove and chimney/house situation. Experience is only gained if you don't kill yourself getting it.

Kevin

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freetown fred
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Post Sun. Dec. 22, 2013 10:41 am

REAL nice common sense post Kevin--KUDO's my friend--you guys need to lighten up on my back flap, I'm bein real sensitive this morning :clap: toothy
"A people that values it's privileges above it's principals, soon loses both"--Dwight D Eisenhower

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KLook
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Location: Chattanooga, Tenn

Post Sun. Dec. 22, 2013 11:19 am

Probably had it open to much lately and got it chapped in the high winds up on the hill. :P :lol:

Kevin

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