DS Machine Quality Control

Modern and vintage hand fired coal stove are similar to a wood stove and in some cases can burn either. They need to be regulated and fed by hand usually every 12 to 24 hours depending on your usage. They require no power to operate making them ideal for rural settings with long power outages.
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I'm On Fire
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Posts: 3920
Joined: Thu. Jun. 10, 2010 9:34 am
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator
Location: Vernon, New Jersey

Post Wed. Dec. 11, 2013 1:39 pm

rberq wrote:
oldsch wrote:It almost sounds like the front sheet metal that the door frames bolt to is not flat. I could see having a casting problem in one door frame but both seems unlikely.
Are the door frames cast iron, or are they steel? My metallurgy skills are such that all I know is they are black. :lol:
A straight-edge shows the stove body to be flat.
I'm pretty sure the flange the door mounts to if cast. It's bolted to the 1/4" plate steel body.

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oliver power
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Posts: 2266
Joined: Sun. Apr. 16, 2006 9:28 am
Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-Vigilant-II), D.S. 1600 Circulator
Baseburners & Antiques: MANY (Mostly when burning wood)
Location: Near Dansville, NY

Post Thu. Dec. 12, 2013 7:48 am

EarthWindandFire wrote:These are true concerns, I am planning on a DS Circulator or 300-9 hot air furnace for next season. Hopefully they become aware of the issues and work hard to resolve them. I'm sure David and Amos would be willing to address anyone's stove issues immediately to the best of their abilities.
I too am watching this quality control situation. I'm thinking of playing with a DS Machine stove next year. Should I continue to see poor quality / workmanship, I'll buy another HITZER 50-93. The HITZER quality, and performance is Great!! Just thought I'd play with a new toy in the shop.

KingCoal
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Posts: 3164
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 3-Locke Warm Morning #120, 1-Locke Warm Morning #524B
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner 1- Crawford #40 BB
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none
Location: Elkhart county, IN.

Post Thu. Dec. 12, 2013 8:26 am

OP, my experience with the new DSM1400 is not like that.

i have no problems or issues of workmanship at all.

results may vary of course.
" all of learning is the understanding of relationships" George Washington Carver

"the true measure of a man is the way he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good" Samuel Johnson

"if it was any simpler, it wouldn't work " unknown engineer

rberq
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Posts: 5011
Joined: Mon. Apr. 16, 2007 9:34 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300 with hopper
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Nut
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators (fuel oil); propane
Location: Central Maine

Post Thu. Dec. 12, 2013 8:37 am

KingCoal wrote:OP, my experience with the new DSM1400 is not like that.
i have no problems or issues of workmanship at all.
Maybe mine was assembled on a Friday afternoon just before quitting time. :(
Simple answers for simple minds.

rberq
Member
Posts: 5011
Joined: Mon. Apr. 16, 2007 9:34 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300 with hopper
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Nut
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators (fuel oil); propane
Location: Central Maine

Post Sat. Mar. 08, 2014 3:45 pm

I'm On Fire wrote:
rberq wrote:Are the door frames cast iron, or are they steel?
I'm pretty sure the flange the door mounts to is cast. It's bolted to the 1/4" plate steel body.
Yes, when I called DS Machine, they said both the frame and the door are cast.
Simple answers for simple minds.

CapeCoaler
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Posts: 4426
Joined: Sun. Feb. 10, 2008 3:48 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove
Location: Cape Cod, MA

Post Sat. Mar. 08, 2014 7:58 pm

I have an older Basement #4 ...
No Quality issues...
The steel screws that hold the cast frame to the steel body finally rotted...
Moist Cape Cod Beach air is the issue...
Then some rust jacking...
Both issues of my location...
I did change over to hinge pins rather than the bolts that came with the stove...
I am not an engineer, train or otherwise!
I stay at a Holiday Inn at least once a year!
Most of all I do have common sense and a practical application of logic.
Oh, add humor, on the dry side, along with a wee bit 'o sarcasm.

rberq
Member
Posts: 5011
Joined: Mon. Apr. 16, 2007 9:34 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300 with hopper
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Nut
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators (fuel oil); propane
Location: Central Maine

Post Sat. Mar. 08, 2014 9:23 pm

CapeCoaler wrote:The steel screws that hold the cast frame to the steel body finally rotted...
Did you just replace them with identical screws? It looks like I could replace most of mine with bolts and nuts, but there is no access on the bottom ones to put a nut on, so they will require screws.
Simple answers for simple minds.

CapeCoaler
Member
Posts: 4426
Joined: Sun. Feb. 10, 2008 3:48 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove
Location: Cape Cod, MA

Post Sat. Mar. 08, 2014 9:28 pm

Hate to admit it but runnin' NG where the #4 is...
House gettin' remodeled and well the NG is just easier with the current situation...
I will drill out and use bolts...
I was going to leave heads inside stove nuts outside...
No time with the 3 little ones to get goin' on that project yet.
I am not an engineer, train or otherwise!
I stay at a Holiday Inn at least once a year!
Most of all I do have common sense and a practical application of logic.
Oh, add humor, on the dry side, along with a wee bit 'o sarcasm.

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kaboom
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Posts: 21
Joined: Sat. Jan. 25, 2014 4:15 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine DS2100WH
Coal Size/Type: nut/Anthracite
Other Heating: FHA/ LPG
Location: Meadows of Dan, Virginia

Post Tue. Mar. 18, 2014 10:32 am

rberq wrote:
CapeCoaler wrote:The steel screws that hold the cast frame to the steel body finally rotted...
Did you just replace them with identical screws? It looks like I could replace most of mine with bolts and nuts, but there is no access on the bottom ones to put a nut on, so they will require screws.
I was able to replace all the door screws on my stove after removing some fire brick. CapeCoaler had suggested putting the nuts on the outside, which sounded like a good idea. Because I already had cad. plated 1/4 - 28 Gr.8 screws, that is what I used.

Before you drill, check the location of the interior angle iron that supports the fire brick. One screw head, on the lower right I think needed to be ground down a little in order to clear.
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rberq
Member
Posts: 5011
Joined: Mon. Apr. 16, 2007 9:34 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300 with hopper
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Nut
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators (fuel oil); propane
Location: Central Maine

Post Sun. Jan. 18, 2015 7:29 pm

More complaints -- this I would call a design defect in the 1300 circulator. The bottom of the hopper is several inches inward from the sides and front of the firebox. Coal flows down and out of the hopper in a natural sloped pile until it rests against the firebricks. The elevation of the hopper opening is such that the coal doesn’t quite reach the top of the firebricks.

However, at the back the hopper is very close to the back of the stove and firebox. The natural slope of the pile puts the coal above the top of the firebricks, and in direct contact with the steel bracket holding the bricks. You can see the result in these pictures – the bracket is burning out after only two and a half seasons of use. First picture is looking down into the hopper from the top. Second picture is looking in through the load door.

I'm guessing this is not a problem with the larger stoves -- 1400, 1500, 1600 -- where the back of the firebox is not flush with the back of the hopper???
stove_burnout_01.JPG
stove_burnout_03.JPG
Simple answers for simple minds.

KingCoal
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Posts: 3164
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 3-Locke Warm Morning #120, 1-Locke Warm Morning #524B
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner 1- Crawford #40 BB
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none
Location: Elkhart county, IN.

Post Sun. Jan. 18, 2015 7:59 pm

i'm sorry to see this, that is indeed a sad flaw.

if you cut another slot in the top of the present back wall of the hopper for the top load door latch rod to pass thru could you reverse the hopper and move the discharge out toward the front ? or would you simply have the same problem in a new location ?

i can see how it would be possible to cut the "L" bracket and weld in a new center piece to address that but short of the first idea a fix for the hopper would involve cutting wedges out of the sides of the hopper and welding the back wall back on to narrow the lower opening enough to have the coal drop past this problem spot. or fashion a new hopper to avoid this.

there is about 4" min. between the back of the hopper and the brick retaining bracket on the 1400. i'm sure the space is atleast that big on the others too.

i would have to say that in view of this i, myself, would have to send the pic's to DSM and encourage them to remedy the problem, it is an obvious and unacceptable design flaw that should have been visible and resolved in production.

best of luck,
steve
" all of learning is the understanding of relationships" George Washington Carver

"the true measure of a man is the way he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good" Samuel Johnson

"if it was any simpler, it wouldn't work " unknown engineer

rberq
Member
Posts: 5011
Joined: Mon. Apr. 16, 2007 9:34 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300 with hopper
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Nut
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators (fuel oil); propane
Location: Central Maine

Post Mon. Jan. 19, 2015 10:49 am

KingCoal wrote:could you reverse the hopper and move the discharge out toward the front ? or would you simply have the same problem in a new location ?
As I recall, the hopper won’t fit in the other way. And yes, it might very well just move the problem to the front.
KingCoal wrote:a fix for the hopper
I thought of putting a diverter plate inside the back of the hopper, at the bottom, to narrow the opening and force the coal forward. But even now nut coal will sometimes bind up at the bottom of the hopper – making it narrower could be a problem. Next idea is bolting a straight extension on the bottom back of the hopper to lower the height of the coal pile that flows out.
KingCoal wrote: there is about 4" min. between the back of the hopper and the brick retaining bracket on the 1400. i'm sure the space is at least that big on the others too.

Yes, I think they built the 1300 by chopping off about 4 ½ inches of depth (one set of convection pipes) off the back of the 1400.
KingCoal wrote:send the pic's to DSM and encourage them to remedy the problem
That’s my plan, call them first and see what they have to say, and go from there. It would be easier to send pictures if they had email – gosh, they installed electricity and telephones, what’s one little step further down the slippery slope? :P
Simple answers for simple minds.

KingCoal
Member
Posts: 3164
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 3-Locke Warm Morning #120, 1-Locke Warm Morning #524B
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner 1- Crawford #40 BB
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none
Location: Elkhart county, IN.

Post Mon. Jan. 19, 2015 11:41 am

what if you add a piece of plate stock a couple inches wide at a forward angle across the width of the back lower edge of the hopper so that it forces the coal toward the front as it exits the hopper.

given the relationship of the hopper depth relative to the brick rail it might be just enough.

steve
" all of learning is the understanding of relationships" George Washington Carver

"the true measure of a man is the way he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good" Samuel Johnson

"if it was any simpler, it wouldn't work " unknown engineer

rberq
Member
Posts: 5011
Joined: Mon. Apr. 16, 2007 9:34 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300 with hopper
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Nut
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators (fuel oil); propane
Location: Central Maine

Post Mon. Jan. 19, 2015 5:51 pm

KingCoal wrote:what if you add a piece of plate stock a couple inches wide at a forward angle across the width of the back lower edge of the hopper so that it forces the coal toward the front as it exits the hopper.
Yes, I think that would work. I don't know that it even needs to be at an angle, as long as it lowers the top edge of the sloping pile of coal.
Simple answers for simple minds.

KingCoal
Member
Posts: 3164
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 3-Locke Warm Morning #120, 1-Locke Warm Morning #524B
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner 1- Crawford #40 BB
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none
Location: Elkhart county, IN.

Post Mon. Jan. 19, 2015 5:56 pm

rberq wrote:
KingCoal wrote:what if you add a piece of plate stock a couple inches wide at a forward angle across the width of the back lower edge of the hopper so that it forces the coal toward the front as it exits the hopper.
Yes, I think that would work. I don't know that it even needs to be at an angle, as long as it lowers the top edge of the sloping pile of coal.
i couldn't tell for sure from the pic, just seemed to look like even straight down you would need to make the "tail piece" even longer to get coal fully past the brick rail.

i'm sure you can work it out.
" all of learning is the understanding of relationships" George Washington Carver

"the true measure of a man is the way he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good" Samuel Johnson

"if it was any simpler, it wouldn't work " unknown engineer

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