DS Machine Quality Control

 
coalfan
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Location: NW ohio
Hand Fed Coal Stove: ds circultor1500 \chubby coal stove
Coal Size/Type: nut/ pea ant.some bit.
Other Heating: kerosene\cold nat. gas

Post by coalfan » Tue. Jan. 20, 2015 7:40 am

would think that ds would and or will make it write with!!!!!!!!


 
rberq
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Posts: 6445
Joined: Mon. Apr. 16, 2007 9:34 pm
Location: Central Maine
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300 with hopper
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Nut
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators (fuel oil); propane

Post by rberq » Sat. Mar. 14, 2015 2:22 pm

After several phone and email discussions, DS Machine shipped me an extension for the bottom back of the hopper. They did not make it to my specifications, alas. The bolt holes still had shavings in them, so they obviously did not test its fit in an actual stove, let alone test how it affects burning. :mad:

The extension is made of 3/16” steel, installs on the outside of the hopper, and wraps around a couple inches at the back corners. 3/16” steel plus 2/16” for bolt heads plus maybe 1/16” slop between parts, makes for 3/8” thickness added to the bottom back of the hopper. So the hopper no longer fits into the stove, because there is not 3/8” clearance available between hopper and firebrick retainer. (Maybe there will be when the steel retainer burns out the rest of the way, and definitely plenty of room after the bricks fall out. :o ) Bolt holes should be in the wraparound ends where clearance is not an issue, and the extension should fit flush with the hopper, neither inside nor outside.

To make matters worse, they sent me a BILL for the part, though I spoke to them wholly in terms of a warranty claim. We are still in discussion on their writing off the charge, and if they refuse, I will ship the part back to them. Otherwise, this summer I will modify it to fit and begin testing it in the fall.

 
rberq
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Posts: 6445
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Location: Central Maine
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300 with hopper
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Nut
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators (fuel oil); propane

Post by rberq » Tue. Apr. 26, 2016 3:43 pm

rberq wrote:
KingCoal wrote:what if you add a piece of plate stock a couple inches wide at a forward angle across the width of the back lower edge of the hopper so that it forces the coal toward the front as it exits the hopper.
Yes, I think that would work. I don't know that it even needs to be at an angle, as long as it lowers the top edge of the sloping pile of coal.
Here's a follow-up on my burnout problem. You were right, Steve, the extension did have to be at an angle. Here's a picture of the modification, made quick and dirty with 26 gauge steel off the rack at Lowes. It looks crude but it did the job -- no further deterioration in the bracket. I was afraid it would burn out, being such thin steel, but it held up for the season. It feels slightly brittle when I wiggle it around, so I plan to replace it annually -- very simple since I can cut it with tin snips.
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KingCoal
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Location: Elkhart county, IN.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Post by KingCoal » Tue. Apr. 26, 2016 5:54 pm

glad to hear you managed a workable solution and made it through a full season without another round of fussing mid -way.

i have made lots of internal additions in stoves made out of flattened stove pipe. they usually last a couple yrs. at least.

too bad the 1300 is so obviously such a cut down, slap dash affair. believe me, the original New Style Champion series were WAY better heaters in all aspects.

steve

 
coalfan
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Posts: 1829
Joined: Tue. Mar. 12, 2013 3:00 pm
Location: NW ohio
Hand Fed Coal Stove: ds circultor1500 \chubby coal stove
Coal Size/Type: nut/ pea ant.some bit.
Other Heating: kerosene\cold nat. gas

Post by coalfan » Thu. Apr. 28, 2016 9:20 am

question why did ds get rid of the nsc series , and rberg on your 1300 are they saying you over fired stove and that is why they are giving a hard time about the hopper being warped ,eatn away that is wrong on there part I think just wondering good luck and hope all goes well .

 
rberq
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Location: Central Maine
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300 with hopper
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Nut
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators (fuel oil); propane

Post by rberq » Thu. Apr. 28, 2016 12:01 pm

coalfan wrote:... on your 1300 are they saying you over fired stove and that is why they are giving a hard time about the hopper being warped ,eatn away.
They wanted to think I over fired it. They asked me if it got hot and I said it wouldn't be much good if it didn't. :lol: But no, I never ran it at extreme temps.

Look back at the earlier postings. The hopper itself has no problems, just the bracket that holds the rear fire bricks, due to a design flaw. I believe they have discontinued the 1300 -- don't know why, it would be fine with a modified hopper.

 
KingCoal
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Location: Elkhart county, IN.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Post by KingCoal » Thu. Apr. 28, 2016 1:10 pm

coalfan wrote:question why did ds get rid of the nsc series ,
for the '13-'14 heat season I tried to buy a NSC series stove and was told on the phone that they were obsolete and would not be built on a one off basis.

at the time they were convinced that the Circulator style was a better design because it negated the need for an external "shell" to promote a convective loop. interestingly the most successful of their stoves still have shells.

as stoves in general the DSM's are hard to beat for out put for the money and build quality is usually high. in the case of the 1300 Circ. it was / is a cut down version of the 1400 and unfortunately not enough attention was given to where the coal was going to drop out of the back of the full size hopper in relation to the shortened 1300 firebox. an error a mere 1.5" manufacturing correction could have eliminated, pity they chose to ignore it and blame users.

steve


 
jremington
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Location: Belleville, New York
Stoker Coal Boiler: DS Machines. Keystoker
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Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Anthra Glo
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Anthramax Comfort Max
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Post by jremington » Tue. May. 17, 2016 12:05 am

We sold a few of them this year. I'm going to have to contact the buyers and see if there's have this problem.... Thanks for the heads up...

 
rberq
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Location: Central Maine
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300 with hopper
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Nut
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators (fuel oil); propane

Post by rberq » Tue. May. 17, 2016 8:18 am

jremington wrote:We sold a few of them this year. I'm going to have to contact the buyers and see if there's have this problem.... Thanks for the heads up...
Now that kind of followup is what I like to see in a dealer! :)

I didn't notice the problem until after 2 years of use, so it may be early yet for this year's sales to see it.
PM me with your email address and I can forward additional photos to you if you want to pass them along to customers.

 
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lvblackdiamond
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Post by lvblackdiamond » Sun. Nov. 05, 2017 8:17 pm

To the best of my knowledge the folks at ds are nice people however i believe the are not amish. There are craftsmen and (as my dad called them) shoemakers in all mfg the persons religious or ethnic background has nothing to do with it

 
jremington
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Post by jremington » Sun. Nov. 05, 2017 8:56 pm

I can tell for sure they are Amish. Dave Sr pays a driver to bring everyone to work and take them home if they live a distance away. The others ride their bikes or scooters.

 
rberq
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Posts: 6445
Joined: Mon. Apr. 16, 2007 9:34 pm
Location: Central Maine
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300 with hopper
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Nut
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators (fuel oil); propane

Post by rberq » Wed. Oct. 03, 2018 8:42 pm

Update on the DS Machine 1300 burnout problem described previously.

First picture shows it hasn’t got much worse since the back of the hopper was extended to lower the coal level at the back.

Second picture shows the 3/16 thick steel used last winter to extend the hopper. You can see it is basically sacrificial, based on the amount of burnout in one heating season. It fact it lasted little better than the thin 26 gauge steel I got off the rack at Lowes. That had to be replaced yearly. The thick stuff will go no more than two years.

Third picture shows that the front firebrick retainer is separating from the secondary air channel – see the three slots where it is pulling away. Fourth picture is taken from inside the stove, looking out the door – the front retainer is starting to burn out much like the back one did. Once that goes, the secondary air channel will be next to burn out. Looks like I need to make an extension this year for the front of the hopper, too.

That’s a lot of problems for a stove that has been used only six seasons.
.
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rberq
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Joined: Mon. Apr. 16, 2007 9:34 pm
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300 with hopper
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Nut
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators (fuel oil); propane

Post by rberq » Wed. Oct. 03, 2018 8:59 pm

And let me tell you about the door glass. It developed a crack starting at the top clamp and extending diagonally to the bottom. Had the glass replaced, went a couple seasons, and it cracked again. This crack also started at the top clamp and ran in an arc to a side clamp. Instead of having the glass company replace this one, I bought the glass and installed it myself. It appears the door casting is not flat where the glass seats against it – the glass can be rocked back and forth slightly. I don’t know how that could be fixed except by a machine shop, but didn’t it COME from the DS Machine shop? I used some thin gasket this time under the clamps, hopefully that will provide a little cushion.

The really weird thing is, both times the glass cracked in late summer, when the stove had been sitting idle and empty and cold for months. WTF????

 
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oliver power
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Post by oliver power » Thu. Oct. 04, 2018 5:23 pm

rberq wrote:
Wed. Oct. 03, 2018 8:59 pm
And let me tell you about the door glass. It developed a crack starting at the top clamp and extending diagonally to the bottom. Had the glass replaced, went a couple seasons, and it cracked again. This crack also started at the top clamp and ran in an arc to a side clamp. Instead of having the glass company replace this one, I bought the glass and installed it myself. It appears the door casting is not flat where the glass seats against it – the glass can be rocked back and forth slightly. I don’t know how that could be fixed except by a machine shop, but didn’t it COME from the DS Machine shop? I used some thin gasket this time under the clamps, hopefully that will provide a little cushion.

The really weird thing is, both times the glass cracked in late summer, when the stove had been sitting idle and empty and cold for months. WTF????
My experience exactly......

 
KingCoal
Member
Posts: 4837
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Location: Elkhart county, IN.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Post by KingCoal » Thu. Oct. 04, 2018 8:18 pm

RB, we have talked at length in this thread about the problems of the rear retainer and the hopper bottom eroding before but i think i'll take a few more steps in my perspective on whats behind all this.

DSM is a "production facility" by that i mean they do their best to economize for their and the customers benefit. that means that they use as many "common" parts as possible in any particular "series" of stoves.

in this particular case they redrew the opening in the top of the 1300 just enough ( which wasn't really enough and we'll get to that in a minute) to make the hopper they use in the whole circulator line fit in. the front and
rear retainers were cut down lengthwise the same way.

the problem began when the rear edge of the hopper was too far back and emitted coal onto the top of the retainer, that coal caught on fire and burned right there on the retainer rather than just under it and caused it's failure. so the hopper was extended to stop that but, that makes the edge of the hopper ( which is too long top to bottom to start with ) be even further into the fire bed as well and so it's suffering.

now you have the front retainer pulling away from the secondary air tube at the front because the former remedies forced the coal from the hopper to flow and settle more toward the front of the fire box and burn against those surfaces too and compromise them.

the issue at hand is that the 1300 is a very poorly laid out stove because of the use of "stock" parts. if it had had a properly reduced and located hopper to start with it would have been fine.

the hopper in my 1400 is situated such that coal flows to the side of the fire just to the bottom of the side retainers and only as high as the bottom of the front and rear retainers. it is also high enough over the fire bed that there is only fresh, not burning coal, ever in contact with it. my 1400 shows none of the unfortunate self destructive habits that your 1300 does.

again, this was and is all avoidable with just a few very slight but important "production" changes.

just as unfortunately, i don't expect them to be employed any more than i foresee you being compensated for the early demise of your stove. nor would i blame you a bit for choosing another manufacturer if you eventually purchase a replacement.

i got a poker stuck in the grates of my 1400 late last season and since i was going to have to go to the garage to get some visegrips to get it free i shut the door, and hit the end of the poker just enough to put a angular crack in my glass. i managed with it the rest of the season and bought a replacement last week. it came with the new rope gasket, new bolts and instructions, so at light up time i'll be dealing with that.

i haven't however had a spontaneous crack though i have had more crazing than i think is reasonable. this yr. i plan to do the "tin foil door" trick for much longer and let the glass fully cool to room temp before i clean it and see if that helps.

all the best,
steve


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