Hitzer 75 Coal Stove.

Modern and vintage hand fired coal stove are similar to a wood stove and in some cases can burn either. They need to be regulated and fed by hand usually every 12 to 24 hours depending on your usage. They require no power to operate making them ideal for rural settings with long power outages.
Bruce M
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1627 basement stove
Location: Sullivan County, NY

Post Sat. Mar. 02, 2013 8:11 am

Rob R. wrote:Are you running the "direct damper" with the handle in the down position? (so the flue gasses go out the side of the firebox).
Hey Rob, I have been running my stove, very similar to this one, with the diverter handle in the up position. With it in the down position it diverts the hot gasses right out of the flue without the benefit of heating the mass of metal that the firebox is. I started doing this in the really cold days when I couldn't get enough heat out of the stove to keep up. I noticed my flue was really hot 300+,and the firebox was relatively cool mid 300's.
Now when I have the stove in the exact same setting and conditions but the handle in the up position, my flue temps go way down to 210* and my stove temps go up to 412*
That diverter never made any sense to me in that why would you want to let the hot gasses escape without the benefit of its heating, I'm really not sure as to why they even have it on the stove, can you or someone enlighten me on this, am I wrong in some way. Really has been puzzling me.
Bruce

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McGiever
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Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV

Post Sat. Mar. 02, 2013 11:29 am

The diverter basically makes a longer path for the heat/flue gases to give up more heat.

The reason for the short path is to make it easier to establish a good draft when initially started with a cold flue.
As soon as flue is warmed and drawing well it can be switched to the longer path for the better efficiency.
Also, before opening the loading door you would want to switch back to clear the stove to not have gases escape into the room.
It is not natural for these gases to go down and out...it is a forced situation but highly desirable for heat extraction.
Leave it switched for some time till the new fuel added has caught fire and then go ahead and divert it back to longer path.
SLOW AND STEADY WINS THE RACE

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Rob R.
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Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy
Location: Chazy, NY

Post Sat. Mar. 02, 2013 11:33 am

Bruce M wrote:
Rob R. wrote:Are you running the "direct damper" with the handle in the down position? (so the flue gasses go out the side of the firebox).
Hey Rob, I have been running my stove, very similar to this one, with the diverter handle in the up position. With it in the down position it diverts the hot gasses right out of the flue without the benefit of heating the mass of metal that the firebox is. I started doing this in the really cold days when I couldn't get enough heat out of the stove to keep up. I noticed my flue was really hot 300+,and the firebox was relatively cool mid 300's.
Now when I have the stove in the exact same setting and conditions but the handle in the up position, my flue temps go way down to 210* and my stove temps go up to 412*
That diverter never made any sense to me in that why would you want to let the hot gasses escape without the benefit of its heating, I'm really not sure as to why they even have it on the stove, can you or someone enlighten me on this, am I wrong in some way. Really has been puzzling me.
I have never operated a DS machine stove, but I can speak to my experience with a Hitzer 82. Initally when you put the stove in "indirect mode" after reloading it the stack temperature will be pretty high...the stove pulls fresh air into the chamber below the flue collar and burns off the volatile gasses...which generates heat that would otherwise be wasted as unburned gasses.

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EarthWindandFire
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Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Lil' Heater.
Other Heating: Oil Furnace and Kerosene Heaters.
Location: Connecticut

Post Sat. Mar. 02, 2013 5:11 pm

I will never complain about spending just $ 1,200.00 dollars to heat my house for an entire winters season. However, others are spending the same with their coal stoves and heating larger houses than mine. Would a different hand-fired stove or stoker furnace produce a better result using the same amount of coal?
Mark

Inflation is the Grim Reaper to prosperity.
Printing money without a gold standard is the crime of counterfeiting.
The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
Mr. McGee, don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.
Si vis paceum, parabellum.

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Rob R.
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Posts: 11350
Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy
Location: Chazy, NY

Post Sat. Mar. 02, 2013 7:32 pm

EarthWindandFire wrote:I will never complain about spending just $ 1,200.00 dollars to heat my house for an entire winters season. However, others are spending the same with their coal stoves and heating larger houses than mine. Would a different hand-fired stove or stoker furnace produce a better result using the same amount of coal?
Most likely they are doing a better job of moving the heat where it is need, and perhaps the other houses have a lower heat load. Putting a big radiant stove in an uninsulated basement is a recipe for heating the soil and having a cold Mrs. on the top floor.

My brother heated his house with a Hitzer like yours for half the winter, since mid January he has been running a stoker boiler with baseboard heat in the house...he now burns slightly less coal per day, even though the far rooms on the first floor are considerably warmer, and they are producing domestic hot water with the boiler.

Bruce M
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Posts: 182
Joined: Tue. Feb. 28, 2012 8:23 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1627 basement stove
Location: Sullivan County, NY

Post Sun. Mar. 03, 2013 9:57 am

I decided to do a little study on my stove yesterday and my findings confirm that having this stove in the direct mode produces the most efficient burn in terms of extracting the heat from the fuel. I'm not trying to dispute what you fellas are saying to me about the proper function of this stove and others like it, just trying to settle things in my mind.
So here are the results. The stove was filled three hours prior to this test and all volatiles had been burnt off. The stove was at a stable temperature for an hour steady.
I started with the stove in the direct mode, handle up. The stove temp is 309* and stack is 163*. I then dropped the handle down to indirect mode. I did not open the door or adjust anything. I waited for an hour and a half and the stove temp was 280* and stack temp was 261*. As you can see I lost almost 30* in stove temp and gained 98* in stack temp. To confirm my findings I flipped the handle back up to direct mode and the temps quickly, in 30 mins, returned very close to the original temps.
It's curious to me as to the design of this indirect mode because as said earlier its forcing the gasses out the bottom, thus not allowing the hot gasses to pass by the bulk of the stove metal and warming it. The gasses just exit in the middle of the coal bed and right out to the flue, there is no extended path to take. It confirms to me anyway that in the indirect mode a lot of heat is escaping out of the flue without the benefit of its energy. Where am I wrong in this, please tell me, it's a bit puzzling to me.
Just for the record, my stove heats the house in either mode with no problems except when its single digits, then it struggles in the indirect mode to keep the house above 70* whereas in the direct mode it just cruises along on setting 3,1/4.
Bruce

samhill
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Posts: 11333
Joined: Thu. Mar. 13, 2008 10:29 am
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 160
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 75 in garage
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker/hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: koker 160/ hitzer 75
Location: Linesville, Pa.

Post Sun. Mar. 03, 2013 11:59 am

Bruce, it sounds to me that you have too much air entering, you got to check on your length of burn times as well. My Hitzer 75 is the furnace model with the full jacket around it & a blower fan that throws out the heated air & I will get more heat after restricting the draft a bit & having it down & out the side as it heats the jacket more. On mine the upper exhaust is really about the shorter of the two & the heat rises as well then gets pulled down. It may be different if just a radiant heater but mine works better with the handle down & the draft reduced once it's burning well.
"Any fool can criticize, condemn & complain & most fools do." Benjamin Franklin

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LsFarm
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
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Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland
Location: Michigan

Post Sun. Mar. 03, 2013 12:07 pm

It sound to me like the handle linkage or geometry is some how reversed or backwards..

I cannot see any way that an indirect path for the exhaust would decrease stove temp and grossly increase flue temps..
The opposite should occur.

I could see the overall temps drop, including the flue temp if the passageways were clogged with fly ash, and the
chimney didn't have enough draft to pull enough combustion air through the fire and the indirect passageways..

But an increase in flue temps HAS to be the result of a direct pathway from the fire to the flue..
More passageway=more surface to absorb heat=lower temps in the exhaust gasses..

Greg L..
Burning Pea/Buckwheat through an antique stoker [semi retired SSboiler],
Running an Axeman-Anderson 260M boiler burning Pea, About 150-250#per day
Farming, Fixing, Fabricating and Flying: 'spare time' what's that?

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Bruce M
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Posts: 182
Joined: Tue. Feb. 28, 2012 8:23 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1627 basement stove
Location: Sullivan County, NY

Post Sun. Mar. 03, 2013 12:49 pm

LsFarm wrote:...

But an increase in flue temps HAS to be the result of a direct pathway from the fire to the flue..
More passageway=more surface to absorb heat=lower temps in the exhaust gasses..

Greg L..
And there in lies the problem. The so called indirect pathway is no more that closing the upper route and opening a route to the flue through the coal bed. What I am saying is that the air feeds from under the bed like any stove but instead of exhausting through the top the gasses now have a route right at mid depth of the coal bed. There is no extra passageway to force the exhaust up then down then up again, it just goes right on out.
Bruce

franco b
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea
Location: Kent CT

Post Sun. Mar. 03, 2013 2:44 pm

A previous post mentioned that the stove is a clone of the Riteway. I think what you are referring to is the secondary burn passage intended for wood which is not an extended flue passage.

Bruce M
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Posts: 182
Joined: Tue. Feb. 28, 2012 8:23 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1627 basement stove
Location: Sullivan County, NY

Post Sun. Mar. 03, 2013 5:19 pm

Yes as I understand it is a riteway clone. I actually thought the Hitzer 82 and also this model shared the same design, but now that you point this out maybe they are not the same internally. I did burn wood in it this past fall and will so this spring, but I honestly forget what position the handle was in when I burnt wood. I did not get any literature with this stove as far as the operation goes, I've just went by what I could pick up on this site. I think at this point a call to DS would be warranted to get the actual low down in the operation of this stove directly from the manufacturer.
Bruce

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EarthWindandFire
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Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Lil' Heater.
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Location: Connecticut

Post Mon. Apr. 15, 2013 7:58 pm

I'm thinking about getting a bigger hand-fired stove than the Hitzer 75. Based on this winter, the 75 is good, but not large enough to heat the upstairs especially on the coldest winter days. The DS Machine 1600 Circulator looks like a good stove and is rated at 125,000 btus. I don't understand the BTU rating used by Hitzer. Based on the circulators firebox size of 16" x 20", my Hitzers firebox of 14" x 24" is bigger and has more surface area to radiate heat ?

I like the Harman SF-250 but without a hopper it's just not as user-friendly as the DS Cirsulator and costs twice as much. What's the largest hand-fired coal stove with a hopper besides DS Circulators ?
Mark

Inflation is the Grim Reaper to prosperity.
Printing money without a gold standard is the crime of counterfeiting.
The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
Mr. McGee, don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.
Si vis paceum, parabellum.

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Coalfire
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 96K btu Circulator
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Location: Denver, PA

Post Mon. Apr. 15, 2013 8:16 pm

EarthWindandFire wrote:I'm thinking about getting a bigger hand-fired stove than the Hitzer 75. Based on this winter, the 75 is good, but not large enough to heat the upstairs especially on the coldest winter days. The DS Machine 1600 Circulator looks like a good stove and is rated at 125,000 btus. I don't understand the BTU rating used by Hitzer. Based on the circulators firebox size of 16" x 20", my Hitzers firebox of 14" x 24" is bigger and has more surface area to radiate heat ?
It is doubtful that the DS will do much better, to achieve that 125Kbtu rating you have to burn 240lbs a day, it is doubtful you will do that. How many pounds per day were you burning, and what is your temp in the basement, and upstairs?

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EarthWindandFire
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Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Lil' Heater.
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Location: Connecticut

Post Mon. Apr. 15, 2013 8:38 pm

Well, I ended up burning 4 tons this winter. Two bags a day was normal during the average winter day. This is exactly why I don't understand the BTU ratings. I have great chimney draft and yet was never able to heat the house thoroughly during the coldest days. Funny as it sounds, my sons bedroom on the 2nd floor was the warmest room in the whole house. The chimney runs from the basement up thru his closet. The heat from the chimney block radiates against the wall in his room and made his room almost 80 degrees on the mild winter days.
Mark

Inflation is the Grim Reaper to prosperity.
Printing money without a gold standard is the crime of counterfeiting.
The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
Mr. McGee, don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.
Si vis paceum, parabellum.

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Rob R.
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Posts: 11350
Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy
Location: Chazy, NY

Post Mon. Apr. 15, 2013 9:33 pm

The heat from the chimney block radiates against the wall in his room and made his room almost 80 degrees on the mild winter days.
This is a prime indicator that you need better heat distribution...not more BTU's in the basement.

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