Advice Needed Please

 
ming
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Post by ming » Mon. Oct. 24, 2011 12:20 pm

We had a new stove fitted and lit it on Sunday at 8am. The pump seems to run nearly all the time, hardly ever goes off. is this normal ? We need the stove on 24/7 until Spring, and wondered if the pump will cope - the thermostat is at 80.


 
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Post by Coalfire » Mon. Oct. 24, 2011 12:21 pm

What stove, where are you from and what are you burning?

Eric

 
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Post by franco b » Mon. Oct. 24, 2011 12:34 pm

ming wrote:We had a new stove fitted and lit it on Sunday at 8am. The pump seems to run nearly all the time, hardly ever goes off. is this normal ? We need the stove on 24/7 until Spring, and wondered if the pump will cope - the thermostat is at 80.
The pump runs to satisfy the heat requirement of the room. With hotter water the pump will run less. A setting of 80 on a room thermostat seems high, what is the actual room temperature? It seems the stove is not keeping up, the fire needs to be hotter or the stove bigger. It could also be that the radiators are not large enough to satisfy the requirement of the room.

 
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Post by ming » Mon. Oct. 24, 2011 1:00 pm

Sorry, I meant the thermostat that's on the water tank is at 80... Our old stove didnt run all the time like this one. Burning anthracite smokeless eggs, and the stove is a Parkray Cumbria 111. Just scared to let it run like this all winter, you know?
http://www.parkray.co.uk/HTML/Cumbria.html

 
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Post by franco b » Mon. Oct. 24, 2011 1:45 pm

OK. I did not realize you were referring to Centigrade, 80 C is 176 F on the water temperature.

Boiling water can be very dangerous and if that system were to be installed in this country it would have a valve to feed water automatically to a pressure of about 12 pounds. It would have an expansion tank to equalize pressure difference for when water is heated or cooled. It would have a pressure relief valve to guard against excessive pressure and maybe also a temperature relief as well. It would also have automatic air bleed for any air in the system. If your system had these safeguards I would raise the temperature to 90 C or 196 F.

Since I do not know how your system is set up I would recommend that you just make sure that there is no air in the system. If there is, the radiators will not get as hot as they should or maybe not at all. If there is air you probably will hear gurgling of water in the pipes.

Are the radiators getting hot or just lukewarm? Do we know that the water temperature in the boiler section is actually 80 C. ? Perhaps the control is at fault.

That's about as far as I can go without actually seeing the set up or knowing more about it. Since it is new what does the installer or dealer have to say?

 
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Post by ming » Mon. Oct. 24, 2011 2:14 pm

Radiators are hot, no noise in the pipes. The plumber who installed it is HEPAS registered - ( approved ) but he went away on holiday for 2 weeks on Saturday :lol: . In general, tell me if the pump is ok to run all the time? if not, then how do we stop that? No forums here for this stuff, they all use woodburners here!

 
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Post by franco b » Mon. Oct. 24, 2011 2:43 pm

ming wrote:Radiators are hot, no noise in the pipes. The plumber who installed it is HEPAS registered - ( approved ) but he went away on holiday for 2 weeks on Saturday :lol: . In general, tell me if the pump is ok to run all the time? if not, then how do we stop that? No forums here for this stuff, they all use woodburners here!
The pump should not be harmed by running for a few weeks. They should last for many years.

Is the room heat being satisfied or overheated? Normally the pump is controlled by the room thermostat being satisfied. It might also be wired to run if the boiler is getting too hot, to dump excess heat from the boiler. It just might be designed to run all the time also, but I think you mentioned that it does shut off sometime.

I know those systems are popular in Britain but are just about non-existent here so my knowledge of them leaves a lot to be desired.


 
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Post by ming » Mon. Oct. 24, 2011 3:08 pm

Ah sorry I didnt think you had a different system there . yes the house is toasty warm and in Scotland thats very much needed. I am sure the plumber said to my husband the pump comes on when the water gets up to temp. There are no room thermostats, just the stove and 7 radiators set to "high" all winter. That's very reassuring re the pump - thank you for that. :mrgreen:

 
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Post by blrman07 » Mon. Oct. 24, 2011 5:24 pm

Radiators set to high? I assume you are talking about thermostatic control valve mounted on each radiator? I am wondering if the pump is set to run based on boiler temperature?

Larry in Pennsylvania USA

 
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Post by ming » Mon. Oct. 24, 2011 6:05 pm

I don't know. This is what we'd like to know, how to stop the pump running for so much of the time...

 
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Post by franco b » Mon. Oct. 24, 2011 7:43 pm

ming wrote:Ah sorry I didnt think you had a different system there . yes the house is toasty warm and in Scotland thats very much needed. I am sure the plumber said to my husband the pump comes on when the water gets up to temp. There are no room thermostats, just the stove and 7 radiators set to "high" all winter. That's very reassuring re the pump - thank you for that. :mrgreen:
It does make sense to have the pump come on when the boiler comes up to heat. The boiler has such a small water capacity that if could overheat very quickly otherwise, and coal does not respond quickly to changes in the air supply.

When your installer comes back it would be good to go over with him the safety aspects of your installation along with what to watch out for and how to respond to a dangerous situation.

Good Luck,
Richard

 
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Post by blrman07 » Tue. Oct. 25, 2011 3:54 am

Can you post a photograph of a radiator showing the control valve and a photo of the boiler showing the controls on it?

 
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Post by ming » Tue. Oct. 25, 2011 1:10 pm

Actually I think we found the problem. One of the doors isn't meeting the frame properly - the gap is wider at the bottom on one door. Husband thinks it's drawing in too much air. Would this fit the problems we're having?

 
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Post by McGiever » Tue. Oct. 25, 2011 1:32 pm

Yes, hard to control the heat output when the combustion air supply is not properly controlled.

When corrected, I hope this solves your problem. :)

 
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Post by CapeCoaler » Tue. Oct. 25, 2011 1:54 pm

Operation Manual...
http://www.parkray.co.uk/assets/downloads/Cumbria%20User.pdf
Page 8 mentions air is controlled by water temp on the model 111...
If the pump is controlled by water temps...
then by turning down the air, the water temps should drop and the pump will stop...
This will stop heat to the radiators...
Turn down the air just a bit at a time and watch the water temps...
When they reach the cut off temp the pump will stop...
make a note of this setting...
The air control controls the water temps and thus the pump...
Fine tuning can wait till the installer returns...
The rads can be tuned to adjust heat in each area as they have their own controller...
This install is much like a hand fed boiler here in the States...
The air control is a bit nicer because it uses the water temps to vary the air input...
Just be careful that you do not turn the air down too much or the fire will go out...

http://www.parkray.co.uk/assets/downloads/G%20Ran ... l%20Nw.pdf
Page 4 shows the linkage to air control...

Unregulated air via the mismatched door might be the cause of excessive boiler temps, causing the pump to constantly run...
Because it is scrubbing off the excessive water temps...
This is by design to prevent an explosive steam event...
Is the loose door under the coal bed...
The install document says no gap greater than .25 mm...


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