Considering 2nd Stove or Furnace

We have a 2700 sq/ft home, including walkout basement, 1.5 story cape cod layout, built in 1930. Our heat load is about 52 BTUH. We have a chimney with two flues, one enters the firebox on the first floor, the other has a concrete tube in the footing that enters the basement for a vented appliance. We're redoing our entire hydronic system, and already planned/purchased a fuel oil unit.

We've been running a Harman TLC 2000 in the basement to get us through, burning Sub-Bit. The Harman's been doing well, but wasn't designed as a central heating unit. We were thinking that a larger core unit in the basement would do the trick, and only use the Harman on the 1st floor as supplementary. I've been looking at some hand fired furnaces with single and dual blowers, etc.

Given that the Sub-Bit basically cuts the rated output of the stove by 1/2, we were thinking of something in the 120 BTUH range or above would work, combined with the ability to move some air. I was thinking of installing some passive floor vents as well. As it stands, the Harman almost does the trick, but being in the basement to protect the pipes, it just can't move enough air, as well as it not even being winter temps as of yet.

Also, I was thinking with another stove or furnace, in addition to when the hydronic system is running, two fully functional heating systems would be nice to have - plus the cost savings of coal. Simply putting-in another stove would work as well, I'm trying to consider all of the combinations that would work and make sense longer term - as longer term, I see us sticking with coal even when the fuel oil system is functional.

I'm assuming since we have stove coal, any furnace I might consider would have to be hand fed? Also, nothing is off the table, we're even considering an old Glenwood for the living room and leaving the TLC in the basement.

Recommendations? Thoughts?

Hmm....I like the Harman SF 250 but the convection fan is too small which won't move much air, just like your TLC.

And, another stove not often thought of or mentioned, is the Harman SF-2600-SS Wood/Coal Furnace. It combines a hand-fired base with a totally seperate oil-fired top. A really impressive unit!

http://www.harmanstoves.com/products/details.asp? ... v=overview

I think your first consideration should be to get a unit that can burn the sub bit coal you are using cleanly. Some of the stoves William recommended might be best, but do some research.

I suspect a stoker would have the best chance to burn clean because fuel is not fed all at once, as it is in a batch fed stove, which gives the best chance to balance the air for a clean burn. A uniform feed with high enough temperature along with proper air mixing will give a clean burn.

Read the bituminous section in this forum and contact the makers of the various stoves and furnaces. Don't rush it. There is nothing more annoying or wasteful than a dirty burning stove. Almost all the stoves that are available will not be good in your application, go for the one or two that might work.

Neil,

That's just about how I'm operating this winter with about 2500 sqft or so to heat. I have a new oil steam boiler that feeds cast iron radiators on a one pipe system. It will only be used if I travel for any length of time. The Glenwood cookstove and the Herald cylinder will be the mainstays. My house has three chimneys, all inside the house and running right down the middle of the house just off the peak of the roof. The center one has two flues the two ends are singles. I have the cookstove in the kitchen on one end the Herald in the middle. The far flue has a jotul propane stove we use at times like these in spring an fall.

Have you had a temps in which to really test the Harmon? If so and it's close you may just either leave it and add something you like (maybe a smaller baseheater or cylinder style as they can burn bit coal quite handily) in the living area. That's probably the simplest way to go.
The second suggestion would be to move the TLC into the living area and get a basement stove/furnace. Possibly something you could add a plenum to or vents in strategic areas in the floors. In that case you might look at DS Machine basement models made for just that.
As Franco stated, check out the bituminous section and see what they are using too.

There are few if any stoves made today that are designed for Bituminous Coal. The last stove made for Bituminous was the Warm Morning, produced by the Locke Stove Company.
You want a stove that is specifically designed for the coal you have available. To do that means you have to look at the old ones made for that purpose. These stoves were direct draft stoves that had a provision for superheated secondary air to be admitted right over the top of the fire. These designs are far, far more efficient and effective in cleanly burning the volitile gasses produced by Bituminous Coal than what is produced today.
I just listed some of the best designs on another thread. Let me see if I can get it for you. When you look at these stoves check out the various places that sell them. You will find that the same model of any given stove varies greatly in price.

Here you are, click on the link below to look at the list of superior Bituminous burning stoves.

TLC 2000 - Controling the Burn

wsherrick wrote:There are few if any stoves made today that are designed for Bituminous Coal. The last stove made for Bituminous was the Warm Morning, produced by the Locke Stove Company.
You want a stove that is specifically designed for the coal you have available. To do that means you have to look at the old ones made for that purpose. These stoves were direct draft stoves that had a provision for superheated secondary air to be admitted right over the top of the fire. These designs are far, far more efficient and effective in cleanly burning the volitile gasses produced by Bituminous Coal than what is produced today.
I just listed some of the best designs on another thread. Let me see if I can get it for you. When you look at these stoves check out the various places that sell them. You will find that the same model of any given stove varies greatly in price.

Here you are, click on the link below to look at the list of superior Bituminous burning stoves.

TLC 2000 - Controling the Burn

Dude, yeah - your pics on my earlier thread got me looking at those. One of those cylinder units would look nice in the living room. I've found a number of restoration companies - two that I really like in North Carolina and Rhode Island.

For the secondary burning of the superheated gasses - I'm assuming the older stoves I should be looking at will be labeled 'air tight'?

franco b wrote:I think your first consideration should be to get a unit that can burn the sub bit coal you are using cleanly. Some of the stoves William recommended might be best, but do some research.

I suspect a stoker would have the best chance to burn clean because fuel is not fed all at once, as it is in a batch fed stove, which gives the best chance to balance the air for a clean burn. A uniform feed with high enough temperature along with proper air mixing will give a clean burn.

Anyone know of stokers that handle stove coal?

SteveZee wrote:Neil,

Have you had a temps in which to really test the Harmon? If so and it's close you may just either leave it and add something you like (maybe a smaller baseheater or cylinder style as they can burn bit coal quite handily) in the living area. That's probably the simplest way to go.
The second suggestion would be to move the TLC into the living area and get a basement stove/furnace. Possibly something you could add a plenum to or vents in strategic areas in the floors. In that case you might look at DS Machine basement models made for just that.
As Franco stated, check out the bituminous section and see what they are using too.

Our temps here have been in the 20s at night, average temp over the winter will be a little below that, with occasional sub-zero spikes, so overall, not to bad.

I don't have a stove or pipe thermostat yet, trip to the big city tomorrow, will pick it up then. Overall, now that I can control the Harman, I'm pretty satisfied with the burn, but a stoker would be nice for a more even feed. Presently, I'm running the stove at about 1/2 damper with an occasional move to 3/4s to bring it to life in the morning with a 40lb load to start the day, then hand fed through-out the day with a few scoops as needed - just enough to not bring the burn down too much and cool the stove and coal bed.

We're keeping the house around 60/62 degrees. The toughest part is getting the heat from the 70 degree basement to circulate up through the open basement door. Even if we can do that, when we start full-on winter temps, I suspect the one unit won't be up to it, but it may be able to do it going 3/4s to full fire 24/7, but that would be rough on the unit.

The uninsulated basement is the heat sink in this house right now, and insulating it isn't an option until next spring after a foundation repair. It's just a gut feel, but I'm thinking we need just a little bit extra to get us in the clear. I just didn't know if going the furnace route would pay dividends in the happiness factor over the long haul.

Yep I hear ya Neil,

That's the problem with the basement installs. You have to add that space to the heat load and it's not very efficient down there without the walls done. I think Will's right about the bit stoves no doubt and there's also no doubt they look pretty cool too! Ginger Creek (Carolina) are good folks and of course Emery (Antique stove hospital) in Rhode Island is the best. Just depends on who's got what you need, when you need it. Barnstable Stove shop guy (Doug) is good too. Stay away from the Good Time stove shop in Goshen Mass. They are way over priced.

EarthWindandFire wrote:Hmm....I like the Harman SF 250 but the convection fan is too small which won't move much air, just like your TLC.

And, another stove not often thought of or mentioned, is the Harman SF-2600-SS Wood/Coal Furnace. It combines a hand-fired base with a totally separate oil-fired top. A really impressive unit!

That 2600 is a pretty sweet unit. I wish that I had more knowledge going into this whole coal thing, I may have skipped the fuel oil unit and stove we have now and gone straight for that. Still, I need to kick it around - the money already spent isn't terminal. And I have to remember I was lucky to sell my wife on the coal concept as a possible primary heat source.

What finally convinced her was a power outage late last night, nothing worked, but we had heat.

I have my Yukon-Eagle IV "Klondike" in my basement as a whole house furnace, and it heats our 2500 sqft home in the U.P. of Michigan quite well. Surprisingly very little heat seems to be lost on the basement, as the area around the furnace itself is not very hot, meaning the heat is going into the house upstairs. I'm very happy with it, although I burn both wood and anthracite coal in it. I have no idea how Bit coal would burn in it, although I believe it can be used.

Do you have just the stairways door to move the heat upstairs from the basement? One of those old large cast iron floor grates above the stove would move a lot of heat upstairs with no electric fan. They come in all sizes. Ive seen 6 footers put together in sections. There are quite a few on ebay, if not found in a used/antique store. They look nice too, in most homes. Bead blast and paint it to match your room. Just a thought before you add another stove.

I'll leave the 2nd stove question to the experts on here.

Kielanders wrote:

wsherrick wrote:There are few if any stoves made today that are designed for Bituminous Coal. The last stove made for Bituminous was the Warm Morning, produced by the Locke Stove Company.
You want a stove that is specifically designed for the coal you have available. To do that means you have to look at the old ones made for that purpose. These stoves were direct draft stoves that had a provision for superheated secondary air to be admitted right over the top of the fire. These designs are far, far more efficient and effective in cleanly burning the volitile gasses produced by Bituminous Coal than what is produced today.
I just listed some of the best designs on another thread. Let me see if I can get it for you. When you look at these stoves check out the various places that sell them. You will find that the same model of any given stove varies greatly in price.

Here you are, click on the link below to look at the list of superior Bituminous burning stoves.

TLC 2000 - Controling the Burn

Dude, yeah - your pics on my earlier thread got me looking at those. One of those cylinder units would look nice in the living room. I've found a number of restoration companies - two that I really like in North Carolina and Rhode Island.

For the secondary burning of the superheated gasses - I'm assuming the older stoves I should be looking at will be labeled 'air tight'?

All of these supurb stoves are air tight. You want one with the heated secondary air feature. Get a Florence, they made them for decades in many sizes and styles. Many of them have the double heating feature also, this means the stove is equipped to circulate hot air out of the top as well as be a radiant stove at the same time. The Florence 153 I showed you a picture of has both features. These stoves are fairly common as they were extremely popular sellers. A Florence Hot Blast stove will not only provide enough heat to keep you warm, it will do it for less coal consumed per BTU produced. Besides their stellar design aspects, they are beautiful stoves as well.

I think these stoves (Florence...) are not just stoves, they are masterpieces and become a sort of jewel in the house!

Kielanders wrote:

franco b wrote:I think your first consideration should be to get a unit that can burn the sub bit coal you are using cleanly. Some of the stoves William recommended might be best, but do some research.

I suspect a stoker would have the best chance to burn clean because fuel is not fed all at once, as it is in a batch fed stove, which gives the best chance to balance the air for a clean burn. A uniform feed with high enough temperature along with proper air mixing will give a clean burn.

Anyone know of stokers that handle stove coal?

No, there are no stokers that can handle large sized coal. Stoker stoves have to have a very small sized coal that is uniform in size in order for it to be fed mechanically. Bituminous stokers are no longer made either I don't believe. Back home they were common. They were of the underfeed retort type, that is the coal is fed into an upside down cone from the bottom and the ashes fall out around the outer edge. These haven't been made for half a century or more. If I am mistaken about that I'm sure someone will correct me.