Hitzer Coal Insert Installation Questions

 
Poncherello
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Post by Poncherello » Tue. Aug. 09, 2011 12:50 pm

Hello All, I have been using a Quadra-Fire 5100i wood inseert for the last 13 years or so and have grown tired of the mess associated with wood. I'm tired of stacking wood, I'm tired of getting crappy wood, I'm tired of the dust and dirt....I'm just tired of the whole thing. So I have decided to sell my 5100i and move to a Hitzer 503 coal insert. I like the HItzer over the keystoker because of the hopper and better looks.

When I installed my wood insert they tried to talk me into lining the entire chimney with 6 inch pipe at about $80 per foot, installed. I promptly passed and simply used a 4 foot section of flexible stainless steel to vent into the chimney just above the smoke shelf. When I spoke to the Hitzer factory they too recommended a liner but said it wasn't necessary as long as the chimney is in good shape, which it is. My chimney is about 30-35 feet high so the cost is to high in my opinion. I also plan to sell this house next year if all goes well so I don't want to invest twice as much as I have to.

My main question is: With the basic premise the same, would it be ok to continue using a 4-6 foot section of 6" pipe to vent into the chimney, I think my chimney has 12' flue tile. I have it cleaned and inspected each year and it's in perfect shape. Is anyone else using an unlined chimney for their coal insert? I have never had any draft issues, I will probably use matchlight charcoal to start the fire and heat the chimney to create a nice draft before adding coal. Any thoughts?


 
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freetown fred
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Post by freetown fred » Wed. Aug. 10, 2011 7:23 am

Clean the chimney real good. I would go with 2 sections of pipe & feel comfortable with that. I also have my share of carbon monoxide alarms through-out the house.You should put insulation or something around the pipe at the smoke shelf or there abouts.

 
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Post by Poncherello » Wed. Aug. 10, 2011 9:13 am

I've been reading some things here and there about this topic and seems like most of the people pushing for a liner are installers. No one is really saying anything other than it's a good idea and the reason they use is draft. I've never had a draft issue using the set up I have now. I usually burn 4-5 cords a year and by my calculations/estimates I should burn about 2 tons of coal. Can anyone say exactly what the concern is if you do not use a liner?

Here's my theory on the coal, if I burn 50 pounds a day, which I think is on the high side, I will use 80 bags in 80 days which is just under 3 months. If I average 30-40 pounds a day, as the Hitzer people told me I would, I can stretch that two tons for a few more weeks which gets me into the beginning of March which is about the time I run out of wood and just use the furnace at night until spring.

 
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Coalfire
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Post by Coalfire » Wed. Aug. 10, 2011 12:45 pm

Well the problem is coal exhaust is lower temp than wood and you can throttle a coal stove back and get even less temps. If your chimeny is 12x12 as you said that is pretty large area for the gasses to cool. Get a manometer and monitor you draft, have more than one co detector, if you see a problem than you need to do something if not proceed :)

Eric

 
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freetown fred
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Post by freetown fred » Wed. Aug. 10, 2011 4:25 pm

Ahhhh, 4' of flexlble--missed that----you've been told what you need to be told--don't overthink it, just do it--be safe with the install. Post some pix of the set up/fireplace area etc--everybody loves pix ;)

 
Poncherello
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Post by Poncherello » Wed. Aug. 10, 2011 10:43 pm

freetown fred wrote:Ahhhh, 4' of flexlble--missed that----you've been told what you need to be told--don't overthink it, just do it--be safe with the install. Post some pix of the set up/fireplace area etc--everybody loves pix ;)
I see you have the HItzer..... did you line your chimney?

 
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lowfog01
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Post by lowfog01 » Wed. Aug. 10, 2011 11:42 pm

Welcome to the forum! I remembered this topic from postings several months ago. I think it will answer a majority of your questions.

Pipe Configuration of a Fireplace Insert

I noticed that a major reason for your switching to coal is the dirt and mess of burning wood. I hope someone told you that coal can be quite messy, too. The thing is that mess is really quite manageable but you are going to have to develop some new stove habits. There have been extensive posting on flyash and dust so use the search button in the upper right corner and do some research before the season gets underway. The first thing I tell any new coal burner is keep the doors on your stove closed! If you do so the draft will carry most of the flyash up and out through the black pipe. The second thing is move real slow when working with your stove during reloading and clearing ash - make sure all fans and other air movement is off. Don't open the door and throw the new load of coal in; place it in. You will need a good pair of welders gloves to work with the coal stove. Personally, I have a shop vac on and pointed to the door when ever I'm working with the stove; I'm catching flyash, not embers or the heavier ash on the bottom. Several people report black coal dust in and around the stove room. That's easy to solve as well by doing most of your movement of coal outside. I remember my first year my teenage male slave would take a 40 lbs bag and dump it from his waist into a feed bucket - black dust everywhere. After we got smart he started doing that outside and that fixed the problem. Anyway, my point is coal is only as neat or as messy as you want to make it. One thing you won't have is the trail of bits and pieces of wood from the door to the stove. Nor will you have the daily task of bringing in the wood for the next day's burn. We routinely bring in 3 or 4 bags in at a time - more if the forecast is bad - and we are good to go for a week.

Yes, coal is wonderful but it's not without it's mess, however, I've found that mess to be well worth the effort. Good luck, Lisa


 
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freetown fred
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Post by freetown fred » Thu. Aug. 11, 2011 7:51 am

No. Chimney has 8X8 tile in it--1st pix is now wood stove, but was where coal stove was initially.--I just packed the 8" thimble with insulation & she worked well--2nd pix is where Hitzer 50-93 has been for past 2 seasons.You'll be fine with your projected set-up.Just remember--common sense & safety are the key elements here.You'll love your insert :) For the record--where do you live--finish filling out your profile--nobody'll steal ya. I'm still waiting for those pix. ;)
Poncherello wrote:
freetown fred wrote:Ahhhh, 4' of flexlble--missed that----you've been told what you need to be told--don't overthink it, just do it--be safe with the install. Post some pix of the set up/fireplace area etc--everybody loves pix ;)
I see you have the HItzer..... did you line your chimney?

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Post by Poncherello » Thu. Aug. 11, 2011 9:32 am

Here is my current Quadra-Fire 5100i, it gives great heat and has been faithful for 13 years but as I said earlier I'm just tired of eveything wood (don't mind the quality, it's from a camera phone). The Hitzer will go into the same place and run the same set up with the flue. I called my Chimney sweep yesterday for the annual cleaning/inspection. He's going to give me a reline price only because I'm concerned a home inspector is going to flag this when I go to sell next year. If it's to high I'll go with my current set up and just remove the insert when I sell and put a new damper in and make it a fireplace again.

Image

 
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freetown fred
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Post by freetown fred » Thu. Aug. 11, 2011 5:59 pm

Quality is fine neighbor. Sounds like you've got the plan down pat. I burned wood for around 40 yrs & would never consider giving up my coal stove. I keep the wood beast in the back, which I shut down in the winter, in case somebody wants to come visit in the winter months. Usually one of the kids & they don't want to stay in the room right over mine. Hmmmm, what could that be about? :love: :clap: toothy Later my friend

 
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Post by Poncherello » Sat. Aug. 13, 2011 10:52 am

Next step is to find a Hitzer dealer with the best cash price for that insert. :D

 
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Post by CapeCoaler » Thu. Aug. 18, 2011 3:28 pm

The 'rents have a 503 insert...
We used a full 6" liner and insulated with a 1" wrapped insulation blanket...
The north facing outside chimney did not draft properly...
With the liner the insert works perfectly...
Hitzer website said max size of flue is 3 time the 6" outlet of the insert...
6" round pipe is 28.26 sq inches...
12x12 tile is 102...
If you have an inside chimney you may get the proper draft...
Check the draft before you commit to a full liner...
but get it insulated if you do...

 
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Post by Poncherello » Thu. Aug. 18, 2011 9:40 pm

I talked with the dealer today and he said that if I wanted them to deliver and install I would have to do the reline or they wouldn't do it. He quoted me an estimate of $1800 to deliver, install, and reline the chimney. The installer is going to come out to the house and give me an exact quote before I buy. I know my draft is good because my wood insert drafts fine and never had a problem in the 13 years I've used it. I called one chimney sweep who said he wouldn't clean it each year unless it was lined because if it's not lined there will be to much accumulation of fly ash in the flue. I might just reline it and be done with it.

 
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freetown fred
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Post by freetown fred » Thu. Aug. 18, 2011 10:10 pm

Sounds like it would save some aggravation to just go with the install through the dealer. They apparently have you by the gonads, soooo, why not! You'll be real pleased when it's all ready to get er cooking :)

 
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Post by Poncherello » Fri. Aug. 19, 2011 11:44 am

freetown fred wrote:Sounds like it would save some aggravation to just go with the install through the dealer. They apparently have you by the gonads, soooo, why not! You'll be real pleased when it's all ready to get er cooking :)
I'm also thinking it's going to be easier when I sell the place. I don't want an inspector coming in and bitching about it not being lined. The last thing I want to do when moving is find someone to reline the chimney.


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