Shaking and Baro Questions

cowentz · Post by **cowentz** » Tue. Dec. 28, 2010 10:36 am

As some of you know I have been learning to burn coal this year using a Mark II to heat my 2,000+ sq ft house. I have been using a twice daily schedule. shake down, and reload in the morning, and when I get home from work.

Can I get away with only shaking once a day and reload twice a day? Or should I just stick with what is currently working?

Also I fine tuned my baro some more this past weekend. I now have it set where the draft floats between .04-.05 wc. Before it was .06 on the low end. After doing this I have to open my air knob more to get the same stove temp. Is this normal? with the new setting 1.5 turns gives a stove temp of 425-450. Where as before 1.25 would get these temps. I see others running stove temps of 500-600 and not going over 1.5 turns. I guess every stove / setup is different.

So far I like coal a lot more then I did the pellet stove at our old house, and my hand fired stove is not really any harder, or more time consuming then the pellet stove was. I am keeping the stove room fairly consistent at 75. the upstairs is about 10 degrees cooler. I bought a floor vent which I still need to install which will vent the heat in the stove room into the hallway upstairs. I would like to get that 10 degree difference down to about 5 degrees if possible.

CapeCoaler · Post by **CapeCoaler** » Tue. Dec. 28, 2010 1:03 pm

How much coal are you loading each time...
Twice a day gives you a smaller coal load and faster recovery time...
Yes with a lighter draw on the pipe due to the baro...
The air vents are open more to get the same heat...

cowentz · Post by **cowentz** » Tue. Dec. 28, 2010 3:53 pm

Currently with the cold temps I am using around 1 level full coal hod per filling. I would still top off the coal in the morning but wondered if one shaking a day would be enough.

Cap · Post by **Cap** » Tue. Dec. 28, 2010 4:28 pm

I would shake as often as you feel necessary. Harman grate system tends to build a lot of ash which will not always drop during one "shake session". I shake more often when I really need extra heat such as this past week with the frigid temps & high winds. Don't sweat it, not an exact science.

And yes, the baro slows down the rate of the burn as you reduce the wc (.04 from .06) Therefore you opening your damper and additional 1/2 turn compensates. The main job for a working baro in the dead of winter is to slow down the total amount of oxygen feeding the coal bed. If you were to foil the baro, you could reduce your air at the damper and create the same draft & heat. The working baro works in unison with the volume of air allowed through the damper in order to maintain a consistent burn especially in times of high winds.

Bear038 · Post by **Bear038** » Tue. Dec. 28, 2010 5:27 pm

Let me add 2 cents here. I was looking through the on line instruction manual from Harman for the Mark series. Harman calls for a MINIMUN of .06" WC. I know I was shocked to see that also. I had heard a few people say the Harmans needed .06-.1 and I thought that was high until I saw it in the instruction manual. Higher WC, smaller opening on the screw vent on the ash door. Seems to work pretty well.

rberq · Post by **rberq** » Tue. Dec. 28, 2010 8:02 pm

Cap wrote:If you were to foil the baro, you could reduce your air at the damper and create the same draft & heat.

Well .... Yes and No. Technically I think you are correct, but it would require almost continuous adjustments to the air inlet. The Harman Mark 1/2/3 stoves have small air gaps at the bottom and top of the glass. The gaps allow a little air to enter, to wash the glass and reduce ash building up on the glass. With the baro blocked, I can hear excessive quantities of air whistling through the air gaps, meaning excessive above-the-fire air which cools the stove and reduces draft and therefore forces me to open the inlet further to get more heat, which creates even MORE whistling through the gaps and more heat loss. The bottom line is, a well-adjusted baro is your friend.

As Bear038 says, the Harman manual calls for .06 to .10 wc. I have experimented with lots of settings on my Mark 1, and anywhere from .04 to .08 seems to work well. When I want a lot of draft temporarily, as when starting or reloading the stove, I use a large paper clip bent into a "C" shape to hold the baro closed. The paper clip hooks over the top of the baro inlet frame, and the bottom of the "C" slides into the hole on the baro's weight bracket.

Cap · Post by **Cap** » Tue. Dec. 28, 2010 9:08 pm

rberq wrote:
Cap wrote:If you were to foil the baro, you could reduce your air at the damper and create the same draft & heat.
Well .... Yes and No. Technically I think you are correct, but it would require almost continuous adjustments to the air inlet. The Harman Mark 1/2/3 stoves have small air gaps at the bottom and top of the glass. The gaps allow a little air to enter, to wash the glass and reduce ash building up on the glass. With the baro blocked, I can hear excessive quantities of air whistling through the air gaps, meaning excessive above-the-fire air which cools the stove and reduces draft and therefore forces me to open the inlet further to get more heat, which creates even MORE whistling through the gaps and more heat loss. The bottom line is, a well-adjusted baro is your friend.
.

Sounds like your glass is too loose Bob.

A properly working baro will regulate heat output and prevent excessive coal use. Sort of reduces heat in a way. Prevents high draft and fast burns. My unit stays closed until the vacuum is 2mm wc.
It may be your friend unless you really want high heat.

CapeCoaler · Post by **CapeCoaler** » Tue. Dec. 28, 2010 10:11 pm

The Mark series has an air gap around the glass...
An air wash system to help keep it cleaner...
They spec the higher draft to keep this system working...
And to keep the CO from spilling out under too low draft conditions...

Cheetah · Post by **Cheetah** » Tue. Dec. 28, 2010 10:36 pm

Cap wrote:If you were to foil the baro, you could reduce your air at the damper and create the same draft & heat.

What exaxtly do you mean by "foil the baro"? If you are restricting air flow through it you are in effect changing its setting. It amounts to the same thing as setting it for more draft and closing the air inlet on the stove to compensate.

Bruce

rberq · Post by **rberq** » Wed. Dec. 29, 2010 12:06 pm

Cheetah wrote:What exaxtly do you mean by "foil the baro"? If you are restricting air flow through it you are in effect changing its setting. It amounts to the same thing as setting it for more draft and closing the air inlet on the stove to compensate.

"Foil the baro" is kind of a neat pun, whether Cap intended it or not.

Yes, if you foil its operation, in the sense that "the FBI foiled his plot", you are restricting air flow through it, and you are correct that is like changing its setting.
And some folks, when they want to foil the baro's operation, do so by putting aluminum foil tightly over the opening so no air at all can get in.

Foiling the baro -- or not having a baro at all -- increases the draft. High draft may well make for a faster, hotter fire. But in the opinion of many on this forum, myself included, the high draft simply sucks all that heat up the chimney and results in high coal consumption but LESS heat to your house. Some ill-informed yahoos (just kidding, folks!

) say they prefer to control the stove with a manual damper rather than a baro. It's probably the only topic we fight about on the forum, except for politics.

Dann757 · Post by **Dann757** » Wed. Dec. 29, 2010 12:31 pm

rberq wrote:It's probably the only topic we fight about on the forum, except for politics.

HAHAHA aint it truth, aint it the truth.

My Monticello may be similar to the Harmans. I just lost a fire, even with the draft inducer, it was just too ashbound overnight. I adjust everything and still don't know what I'm doing! I have single wall black pipe, and the stack thermometer helps me. If I get a wood fire going to start a coal fire, the stack temp can quickly go past 350 and I start to smell the pipe finish baking. If my draft on a fresh coal fire is too much, the stack temp only goes to around 250. If the fire is too low, it will fall below 150.
So many variables! If I let a fresh deep coal fire get a lot of air, eventually it's all glowing. It puts out a lot of heat, but eventually it all seems to be close to spent. Then I have what I call red slush. It reminds me of freeze pop slush in consistency! I don't hesitate to jam a piece of foil into the damper tab to keep it closed when I'm running the draft inducer. Today that didn't work, I think the fresh air cooled the fire rather than revive it. If the fire is a few days old, I've tried shaking until red embers fall into the ash pan. This collapses the fire and then I have to poke it from underneath. I still don't have the hang of shaking. I'm also reluctant to shake, since my grate is a circular shaker, and no longer available. It's got a crack brazed on it too.
I put big stove coal chunks on the fire this morning, might have had better luck with smaller pieces.
Now I'm hearing the gas heater coming on, gotta dump the whole firebox and start over!

Cap · Post by **Cap** » Wed. Dec. 29, 2010 7:54 pm

Dann757 wrote:
rberq wrote:It's probably the only topic we fight about on the forum, except for politics.
HAHAHA aint it truth, aint it the truth.

My Monticello may be similar to the Harmans.
So many variables! If I let a fresh deep coal fire get a lot of air, eventually it's all glowing. It puts out a lot of heat, but eventually it all seems to be close to spent. Then I have what I call red slush. It reminds me of freeze pop slush in consistency! I don't hesitate to jam a piece of foil into the damper tab to keep it closed when I'm running the draft inducer. Today that didn't work, I think the fresh air cooled the fire rather than revive it. If the fire is a few days old, I've tried shaking until red embers fall into the ash pan. This collapses the fire and then I have to poke it from underneath. I still don't have the hang of shaking. I'm also reluctant to shake, since my grate is a circular shaker, and no longer available. It's got a crack brazed on it too.
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This is another misconception IMO. I rarely ever fill my box to the top. I will only do so when I want maximum heat. 1/2 firebox fill will still get me a solid 8 hrs without creating too much heat.

deep coal fire get a lot of air, eventually it's all glowing.

. Obviously, you must fill to the top to get the life but for the listers with large handfired units, no need to fill to the top (large volume of coal) UNLESS you need lots heat and hrs of burn time. IMO. But all our units have slightly different operating characteristics. For me, if I want normal heat, partial fill and working baro. If I want high heat, large volume of coal and keep that baro tight.

Chuck_Steak · Post by **Chuck_Steak** » Wed. Dec. 29, 2010 10:11 pm

rberq wrote: ... Some ill-informed yahoos (just kidding, folks! ) say they prefer to control the stove with a manual damper rather than a baro. ..

markplusone · Post by **markplusone** » Tue. Jan. 04, 2011 7:42 pm

Heres another two cents. I have an old kenmore coal parlor stove. Holds almost 100# of coal in it. I tried to start and run it with just half a load and found that it just wont run good that way. That evening when I filled it up after starting it, it took off. I have found that with larger coal, (i.e.Nut) it likes a larger, deeper bed to really burn efficiently. I shake/reload twice a day at 8. I put in 35 lbs each time. The stove stays around 500-550 and the stack is between 200-220. The flu is drafting .025WC too. Now with shaking twice a day and only adding only 35/lbs at a time, that coal is cookin for about two days before it comes out the bottom. and yes I shake till the first red hot coals come out. What does come out is so thoroughly burned, I have yet to find any coal that has black or even grey on the inside of it. Does seem to have some metal smelted amongst it though. Just little drops here and there but different. Like you say, its all in the stove but mine burns so much better with a full load.

Shaking and Baro Questions

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