Coal Stove Questions.

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EarthWindandFire
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Post by EarthWindandFire » Sat. Dec. 18, 2010 1:56 pm

Hello:

My name is Mark and I live in central Connecticut in a small Cape with my wife, two kids and a two-hundred pound mastiff named Mack. I have a few starter questions about coal stoves that I hope someone is willing to answer.

1). Are base heaters the most efficient type of coal stoves?
2). Is it true that Quaker made the best of the base heater coal stoves and is Quaker really that much better than Glenwwod?
3). What type and design of chimney is required and is a simple stove pipe chimney good enough or is a masonry chimney better?
4). Can I pipe the coal stove into a chimney shared with my oil furnace and hot water heater?
5). Would a cast-iron Cooking Stove be superior to a coal stove (base heater type) for whole-house heating?
6). If I were building a new house, would a Scandinavian masonry fireplace (consisting of about two tons of soapstone) be superior to a coal stove base heater?
7). Has anyone seen or heard of a residential coal stove capable of producing electricity? If something like that ever existed it would have to produce enough heat to boil water into steam which in turn would power a generator therefore I doubt it would be efficient or affordable enough for personal use.
8). Which model years and which manufacturers were the best coal stoves produced? Are their models and manufacturers that should be avoided?
9). My house is about a 1,000 square feet, is a Glenwood # 6 too much stove?
10). Is anyone producing "new" coal stoves in North America or elsewhere besides Chubby?
11). Is a well insulated and tightly constructed home suitable for a coal stove? Do any coal stoves draw outside air for combustion?
12). What location in a home is best for a coal stove, the basement or the first floor? Are several coal stoves scattered around the house better in some way than having one large base heater?

I apologize in advance for asking so many questions but I am very excited. I was on my way to purchase a new square box Vermont Castings when I came across the videos by William Sherrick who I thank very much for educating me about antique coal stoves before I made a terrible purchase.

Respectfully,

Mark W


 
rberq
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Post by rberq » Sat. Dec. 18, 2010 2:08 pm

Welcome to the forum. We want a picture of the dog. As to your questions:
1). Don't know. "Most efficient" might not be "best for your needs".
2). Again, "best" depends on your needs.
3). Masonry or "Metalbestos" type.
4). No.
5). No.
6). It's not an either/or question.
7). No.
8). Different types and different manufacturers have their own advantages.
9). Need to know more about your house -- layout, insulation, etc.
10). Yes.
11). Yes. Yes, it can be done.
12). Depends on the house.

Could I recommend that you narrow down your questions to your current house and your current situation? Or if you are planning to build a new house like you mention, narrow down your questions to that? Otherwise we would be here all week writing a dissertation on coal burning.

 
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wsherrick
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Post by wsherrick » Sat. Dec. 18, 2010 3:15 pm

Yes, Base Heaters are the most efficient coal stoves. In my opinion Quakers and Glenwoods are equall in performance. The only difference between the two are how the base is made. The Quaker has reinforcing rods to protect the large iron plate in the base from excessive stress. A No 6 would be fine for the size of house you state. Placement of the stove in the house is what is important.
And thank you very much for your kind remarks about my videos.

 
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freetown fred
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Post by freetown fred » Sat. Dec. 18, 2010 3:20 pm

yep,a base heater will do just fine in a small house--1000sq--like Wm. said,placement is real impt. :)

 
franco b
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Post by franco b » Sat. Dec. 18, 2010 7:00 pm

EarthWindandFire wrote:Hello:

My name is Mark and I live in central Connecticut in a small Cape with my wife, two kids and a two-hundred pound mastiff named Mack. I have a few starter questions about coal stoves that I hope someone is willing to answer.

1). Are base heaters the most efficient type of coal stoves?
2). Is it true that Quaker made the best of the base heater coal stoves and is Quaker really that much better than Glenwwod?
3). What type and design of chimney is required and is a simple stove pipe chimney good enough or is a masonry chimney better?
4). Can I pipe the coal stove into a chimney shared with my oil furnace and hot water heater?
5). Would a cast-iron Cooking Stove be superior to a coal stove (base heater type) for whole-house heating?
6). If I were building a new house, would a Scandinavian masonry fireplace (consisting of about two tons of soapstone) be superior to a coal stove base heater?
7). Has anyone seen or heard of a residential coal stove capable of producing electricity? If something like that ever existed it would have to produce enough heat to boil water into steam which in turn would power a generator therefore I doubt it would be efficient or affordable enough for personal use.
8). Which model years and which manufacturers were the best coal stoves produced? Are their models and manufacturers that should be avoided?
9). My house is about a 1,000 square feet, is a Glenwood # 6 too much stove?
10). Is anyone producing "new" coal stoves in North America or elsewhere besides Chubby?
11). Is a well insulated and tightly constructed home suitable for a coal stove? Do any coal stoves draw outside air for combustion?
12). What location in a home is best for a coal stove, the basement or the first floor? Are several coal stoves scattered around the house better in some way than having one large base heater?

I apologize in advance for asking so many questions but I am very excited. I was on my way to purchase a new square box Vermont Castings when I came across the videos by William Sherrick who I thank very much for educating me about antique coal stoves before I made a terrible purchase.

Respectfully,

Mark W
1). Base heaters were the most efficient in their day. A modern stove with hopper, thermostat, and blower can be just as efficient and easier to tend with more uniform heat output.

3). Masonry chimney is best, can last 100 years.

4). No, not if you want it to be legal.

5). No. cook stoves have small fire boxes

6). Masonry stoves were developed hundreds of years ago to address the problem of wood fires burning hot and fast. By providing very large heat absorbing surfaces a hot fire could be set a few times a day and the heat would last. Coal already can be burned slowly for uniform output.

7). At one time an effort was being made to generate electricity directly from flue gas. It evidently is possible but since nothing has been heard since it probably was not practical.

10). Hitzer, DS Machine, Harman, Vermont Castings, and probably others.

12). Central location in living area. Several stoves are better. Even if one stove can do a pretty good job there will be cold return air drafts returning to the single stove.

 
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wsherrick
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Coal Size/Type: Chestnut, Stove Size

Post by wsherrick » Sat. Dec. 18, 2010 7:54 pm

franco b wrote:
EarthWindandFire wrote:Hello:

My name is Mark and I live in central Connecticut in a small Cape with my wife, two kids and a two-hundred pound mastiff named Mack. I have a few starter questions about coal stoves that I hope someone is willing to answer.

1). Are base heaters the most efficient type of coal stoves?
2). Is it true that Quaker made the best of the base heater coal stoves and is Quaker really that much better than Glenwwod?
3). What type and design of chimney is required and is a simple stove pipe chimney good enough or is a masonry chimney better?
4). Can I pipe the coal stove into a chimney shared with my oil furnace and hot water heater?
5). Would a cast-iron Cooking Stove be superior to a coal stove (base heater type) for whole-house heating?
6). If I were building a new house, would a Scandinavian masonry fireplace (consisting of about two tons of soapstone) be superior to a coal stove base heater?
7). Has anyone seen or heard of a residential coal stove capable of producing electricity? If something like that ever existed it would have to produce enough heat to boil water into steam which in turn would power a generator therefore I doubt it would be efficient or affordable enough for personal use.
8). Which model years and which manufacturers were the best coal stoves produced? Are their models and manufacturers that should be avoided?
9). My house is about a 1,000 square feet, is a Glenwood # 6 too much stove?
10). Is anyone producing "new" coal stoves in North America or elsewhere besides Chubby?
11). Is a well insulated and tightly constructed home suitable for a coal stove? Do any coal stoves draw outside air for combustion?
12). What location in a home is best for a coal stove, the basement or the first floor? Are several coal stoves scattered around the house better in some way than having one large base heater?

I apologize in advance for asking so many questions but I am very excited. I was on my way to purchase a new square box Vermont Castings when I came across the videos by William Sherrick who I thank very much for educating me about antique coal stoves before I made a terrible purchase.

Respectfully,

Mark W
1). Base heaters were the most efficient in their day. A modern stove with hopper, thermostat, and blower can be just as efficient and easier to tend with more uniform heat output.

3). Masonry chimney is best, can last 100 years.

4). No, not if you want it to be legal.

5). No. cook stoves have small fire boxes

6). Masonry stoves were developed hundreds of years ago to address the problem of wood fires burning hot and fast. By providing very large heat absorbing surfaces a hot fire could be set a few times a day and the heat would last. Coal already can be burned slowly for uniform output.

7). At one time an effort was being made to generate electricity directly from flue gas. It evidently is possible but since nothing has been heard since it probably was not practical.

10). Hitzer, DS Machine, Harman, Vermont Castings, and probably others.

12). Central location in living area. Several stoves are better. Even if one stove can do a pretty good job there will be cold return air drafts returning to the single stove.
I was going to do it, but; I'm not going to argue on point one anymore. So deleted post. Sorry.
Last edited by wsherrick on Sat. Dec. 18, 2010 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 
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EarthWindandFire
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Post by EarthWindandFire » Sat. Dec. 18, 2010 8:41 pm

Thank you to everyone who viewed my post and replied.

Earlier today I watched the videos that were so well put together by William Sherrick and it got me thinking about the installation of a coal base heater in a basement. William talked about how the stove radiates so much heat rearward that it melts snow for a three foot distance from his cement block foundation. In that type of installation, or really any type where heat is radiated from an object, a metal heat shield should improve the performance and efficiency significantly would it not?

For instance, in a basement installation like that of William's, I would think that installing a heat shield under and behind the Glenwood, spaced an inch away from the basements cement block walls would prevent that radiant heat from "escaping" the homes interior. Installing a metal heat shield from the floor to the ceiling behind the Glenwood of about a 1/16" inch thick with a conical shape could actually enhance the radiating efficiency of a coal stove. Also, from an engineering point-of-view, I would be concerned with large sections of my foundation and the soil behind it receiving heat in the winter whereas other sections would be cooler allowing the ground under and around it to remain frozen.

A few minutes ago I found a stove blogspot that talked about a brand of stoves called Favorite. Are/were these the best coal stoves or are they simply the most decorated and elaborately casted?

Thanks again!

Mark W


 
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Post by nortcan » Sat. Dec. 18, 2010 8:47 pm

HI, Quest. 10= yes , but you may need some mechanical air exchanger in a tight house. When I builded my house, the look was the second consideration after superior insulation and very air tight. To burn wood or anthracite I have to work with an air exchanger and modified in/out air path. Last week I did tried to stop the air entering in the house and the exit one. Next days, the stove didn't want to rise its T*. I re-opened the air exchanger syst. and eveything came back like before...
Quest. 11, I think Vermont Castings doesn't make coal stoves anymore. The V.C. Vigilant11 could be one of the best anthracite stove if the maker was wanting to and makes a few modifs on that stove. The Vig11 has an internal damper and when closed the gases are directed to a very long path like the baseburners. Plus the vig11 doesn't need a baro. or MPD... but the stove is not too good in its original construction.

 
sharkman8810
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Post by sharkman8810 » Sat. Dec. 18, 2010 9:10 pm

Hello:

My name is Mark and I live in central Connecticut in a small Cape with my wife, two kids and a two-hundred pound mastiff named Mack. I have a few starter questions about coal stoves that I hope someone is willing to answer.

1). Are base heaters the most efficient type of coal stoves?I believe this is debated, but they are good. Hitzers, Harmons, D.S. Machine, make good coal stoves too. The science in determining BTU output and efficiency isn't precise. It is important to get the right type of stove for the size of the size of the house and application.
2). Is it true that Quaker made the best of the base heater coal stoves and is Quaker really that much better than Glenwwod? I am not an expert on antique stove, I prefer modern stoves.
3). What type and design of chimney is required and is a simple stove pipe chimney good enough or is a masonry chimney better? Masonry is better, but there are various metal types out there that work and are easier to handyman.
4). Can I pipe the coal stove into a chimney shared with my oil furnace and hot water heater? Not and have it legal with various building codes
5). Would a cast-iron Cooking Stove be superior to a coal stove (base heater type) for whole-house heating? IF you were doing whole house heating I would recommend a boiler or stoker forced air furnace or a large stove made for gravity feeding a house. No the stove would blast you out of one room, and the rest of the rooms would be cold if you ran it hot enough to heat a house.
6). If I were building a new house, would a Scandinavian masonry fireplace (consisting of about two tons of soapstone) be superior to a coal stove base heater? I am not familiar with scandinavian masonry fireplaces, but it sounds like alot of wood as apposed to ordering/getting coal. The coal stove base heater is a more efficient than most fireplaces.
7). Has anyone seen or heard of a residential coal stove capable of producing electricity? If something like that ever existed it would have to produce enough heat to boil water into steam which in turn would power a generator therefore I doubt it would be efficient or affordable enough for personal use. They make coal boilers than can do steam systems that are efficient and good for residential use, not for making electricity.
8). Which model years and which manufacturers were the best coal stoves produced? Are their models and manufacturers that should be avoided? The typical names mentioned in this post and throughout the forums will give you a good idea. Before you buy do a search and you'll find out.
9). My house is about a 1,000 square feet, is a Glenwood # 6 too much stove? I am not familiar with that particular model, but they are pretty adjustable in BTU output and would help alot, the problem with stoves is air circulation, and moving it around without roasting out one room and it freezing another room.
10). Is anyone producing "new" coal stoves in North America or elsewhere besides Chubby? Yes, alot of dealers out there, in hand fired, Alaska, Harmon, DS Machine, and Hitzer come to mind.
11). Is a well insulated and tightly constructed home suitable for a coal stove? Do any coal stoves draw outside air for combustion? Yes they will work in a well insulated house, sometimes adding a make-up air vent is a good idea for fresh air into the house.
1 2). What location in a home is best for a coal stove, the basement or the first floor? Are several coal stoves scattered around the house better in some way than having one large base heater? I am a basement fan, it allows for ducting and gravity feeding the house with duct work to the first floor for heat distribution and putting in cold air returns. Heat distribution becomes an issue with it on one floor. The people who seem to have the most heat distribution problems have it on the first floor and try to move the heat sideways and around walls.

I apologize in advance for asking so many questions but I am very excited. I was on my way to purchase a new square box Vermont Castings when I came across the videos by William Sherrick who I thank very much for educating me about antique coal stoves before I made a terrible purchase.

I recommend you do a posting with your house information and situation, buying an antique baseburner may not be your best coal heating option, but we won't know without more info. Some of those stove are quite expensive and you may want to put the cash it into a different type of system such as a nice stoker stove, one with a gravity feed hopper, or even a boiler so you can domestic hot water.

I am not for or against the antique baseburner stoves, but they are just a radiant sorce of heat and can roast you out of one room and leave the rest cold ect. Be sure to tell us what kind of heating system you have now.

Sharkman8810
Last edited by sharkman8810 on Sat. Dec. 18, 2010 9:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

 
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wsherrick
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Post by wsherrick » Sat. Dec. 18, 2010 9:12 pm

EarthWindandFire wrote:Thank you to everyone who viewed my post and replied.

Earlier today I watched the videos that were so well put together by William Sherrick and it got me thinking about the installation of a coal base heater in a basement. William talked about how the stove radiates so much heat rearward that it melts snow for a three foot distance from his cement block foundation. In that type of installation, or really any type where heat is radiated from an object, a metal heat shield should improve the performance and efficiency significantly would it not?

For instance, in a basement installation like that of William's, I would think that installing a heat shield under and behind the Glenwood, spaced an inch away from the basements cement block walls would prevent that radiant heat from "escaping" the homes interior. Installing a metal heat shield from the floor to the ceiling behind the Glenwood of about a 1/16" inch thick with a conical shape could actually enhance the radiating efficiency of a coal stove. Also, from an engineering point-of-view, I would be concerned with large sections of my foundation and the soil behind it receiving heat in the winter whereas other sections would be cooler allowing the ground under and around it to remain frozen.

A few minutes ago I found a stove blogspot that talked about a brand of stoves called Favorite. Are/were these the best coal stoves or are they simply the most decorated and elaborately casted?

Thanks again!

Mark W
The elaborate Base Burners are extremely efficient, but; they require a good bit of periodic maintenance. You have to make sure all of the little mica windows are fitted tight to prevent air leaks. The Mica Base Burners are strictly designed for Hard Coal as a fuel. Base Heaters are designed to use either coal or wood as desired. The peak of stove design is found in the Base Heaters and the anthracite base burners, such as a Glenwood No 111 made at around 1900-1915.

 
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Ashcat
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Post by Ashcat » Sat. Dec. 18, 2010 10:00 pm

wsherrick wrote: The elaborate Base Burners are extremely efficient, but;
EarthWindandFire wrote:William talked about how the stove radiates so much heat rearward that it melts snow for a three foot distance from his cement block foundation.
:lol: That's one type of efficiency, I suppose!

After you've been reading this forum for awhile, you'll see that alot of us think the stove we have is the best! That should tell you that there are lots of options, and an overall very high level of satisfaction from owners about using coal for home heat. My one piece of advice to you: spend some time reading here before making any stove purchase. Lots of different options for you, and heating 1000 sq ft should be very feasible with one, of many different types and sizes, of stove.

For a view of another stove, and since we're touting our own, here's a video I put up of tending a HItzer insert:

 
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wsherrick
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Coal Size/Type: Chestnut, Stove Size

Post by wsherrick » Sat. Dec. 18, 2010 10:12 pm

EarthWindandFire wrote:Thank you to everyone who viewed my post and replied.

Earlier today I watched the videos that were so well put together by William Sherrick and it got me thinking about the installation of a coal base heater in a basement. William talked about how the stove radiates so much heat rearward that it melts snow for a three foot distance from his cement block foundation. In that type of installation, or really any type where heat is radiated from an object, a metal heat shield should improve the performance and efficiency significantly would it not?

For instance, in a basement installation like that of William's, I would think that installing a heat shield under and behind the Glenwood, spaced an inch away from the basements cement block walls would prevent that radiant heat from "escaping" the homes interior. Installing a metal heat shield from the floor to the ceiling behind the Glenwood of about a 1/16" inch thick with a conical shape could actually enhance the radiating efficiency of a coal stove. Also, from an engineering point-of-view, I would be concerned with large sections of my foundation and the soil behind it receiving heat in the winter whereas other sections would be cooler allowing the ground under and around it to remain frozen.

A few minutes ago I found a stove blogspot that talked about a brand of stoves called Favorite. Are/were these the best coal stoves or are they simply the most decorated and elaborately casted?

Thanks again!

Mark W
I know I am losing a lot of heat through the basement walls and concrete floor. I spend a lot of time down here including Posting on this Forum. As soon as I can afford it the basement will become a finished den, with hardwood floors, insulated walls, and an appropriate hearth for the Glenwood. The point I was making about the snow melting is this. The stove heats so well with only 50 pounds a day burned at the most extreme. The snow around the ENTIRE perimeter of the foundation melts, not just the part behind the stove. In reading all the posts. Make up your own mind as to what you really want. Don't let anybody talk you out of it. Do all the research and ask all the questions you want and you will be able to tell the difference between fact, opinion and simple, unabashed bias. But in the end make sure you are comfortable with your choice because you have made a good decision based on your taste, needs and expectations.

 
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Post by ffcuz » Sat. Dec. 18, 2010 10:44 pm

Having grown up with wood heat and then starting out with with a LP furnance in my own home the best choice you have made so far is considering coal to start with. Being realtively new to coal here is my 2 cents. Coal is such a completly different animal le learning curve is pretty big but the info here is pricless. My friend has a Scandinavian chimney but I can't see it working with coal the exhaust temps for coal applinces are not high enough to heat that amount of material. I would love to have a baseburner I think they are beautiful works of art. But I am now heating my 3000 square feet home with a Hitzer 50-93 and it cost half as much. Always on the lookout though for a baseburner to restore but in the south they don't seem to be as common. Warm morning's rule here. I digress Research thourghly but you can not go wrong with coal.

 
CapeCoaler
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Post by CapeCoaler » Sat. Dec. 18, 2010 10:52 pm

As you burn...
You will learn...
You will never learn which stove is best
For You
Until you try a few...
Join the party and get a stove that you like...
You can always sell it and get a better one later...
Do not go too small...
Bigger stoves will give you longer burn times...
And more heat when you need it...
Of course I think my DSM is best for me...
Right now...
But a Stoker Boiler would be better...

 
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Post by LsFarm » Sun. Dec. 19, 2010 1:35 am

If you like the look of the early baseburner stoves, and want a functional centerpiece in you home to be the heater, then you will like one of the better baseburners.. just understand that they do require more upkeep, like William said. the baseburners are made of cast iron pieces and some sheet steel, depending on the make and model.. make sure you either buy a mildly used one and very carefully and thoroughly rebuild it. or buy a rebuilt one from one of the antique restoration stores, with a warrantee.. Understand that cast iron is prone to cracks if abused or overheated or shock cooled.. And all the pieces need to be assembled with furnace cement to keep the stove airtight.. and that the assembly cement can crack and need a reseal ocassionally
The baseburner technology is good, it requires a good chimney for a good reliable draft.
The antique stoves can be VERY expensive to purchas.. sometimes 2-4 times as expensive as a new steel hand or hopper fed stove.

The new hopper fed stoves are quite effecient, but look entirely different than an antique stove.. the modern stoves can be 'gussied up' with brass and windows and finials, ceramic panels, but they are usually still a box. You can buy a Chubby hand fed stove that is a round design, almost new, with new parts available, and it may be more attractive to you..

I personally don't trust early cast iron, I've seen too much of it warped and cracked.. but I do like the looks of the early stoves in the right house.

If I were to buy a stove for a 1000 sq ft house or cabin, I'd centrally locate a Hitzer or DS, or Alaska hopper fed stove, build an inside-the-structure masonry chimney, with a nice brick hearth.. then look around for a nice small baseheater to rebuild.. and then see if I like the baseheater better.. you won't loose any money or not very much on either stove,, and if you buy used, and carefully, you might be lucky and make money on the stoves.

The steam pressure needed to generate electricity is too high to be safely generated with a home appliance.

Greg L


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