Insulated Basement Keeping the Heat Downstairs?

Modern and vintage hand fired coal stove are similar to a wood stove and in some cases can burn either. They need to be regulated and fed by hand usually every 12 to 24 hours depending on your usage. They require no power to operate making them ideal for rural settings with long power outages.
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offcoursey
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glacier Bay
Stove/Furnace Model: Glacier bay
Location: Perkasie PA

Post Tue. Dec. 14, 2010 3:31 pm

There is a large antique store in Silverdale with floor grates. I'm not sure of the name of the place but it is on 113 near the school.I think one of the vender's that has a space there, only sells grates. One of the grates I bought is cast, about 10" diameter (yes, it's round) and is dated 1899. You really need to look around to find them....or ask.

lobsterman
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby, 1980 Fully restored by Larry Trainer
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Chubby Jr, early model with removable grates
Location: Cape Cod

Post Tue. Dec. 14, 2010 6:12 pm

I don't think conduction through the floors affects you too much, with or without insulation because inside the house heat is dominated by convection. Hot air moves up the ceiling of the staircase and cold air moves down the stairs. If you want to increase this natural convection pattern, put the fan at the top of the stairs blowing cold air down. I heat the 2nd floor of my house by convection up the staircase with no fan and the upstairs climbs to within 2 degrees of the main floor where the chubby is located. And the chubby is not close to the stairs. The room above the chubby is not warmer than the other upstairs rooms.

dbjc364
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Stove/Furnace Make: Harman Mark 11
Location: central maine

Post Sat. Dec. 18, 2010 2:39 am

Absolutely you need to take out that basement ceiling insulation! Your defeating your own purpose! My feet are now toasty warm,not to mention that IT IS warmer upstairs. Tell your wife,that I said,by improving the cellar-basement area,without spending a ton of money{it can be done}, that you will have more money for finishing the house! I should know-I'm a wife too, and its what we've done.With the exception of the type of insulating. I don't advocate using fiberglass batts on the basement walls,because of moisture mainly. It cost us $400 in Bubble Radiant Barrier & furring strips,and worth every penny to do this.It makes the heat bounce off the walls, and direct it to where it needs to go the most.We already had duct work & grates in place from the oil furnace,so now we're just re-adjusting them to the phlenum over the stove-yada-yada. All thats needed, is a small corner fan,-$20-at the bottom of the steps if at all. A box fan, will actually make it feel colder, as 1/2 of the time I shut off our small fan.The purpose is not to let that precious heat sink into the walls,but to go upstairs.If you snug it up, you save on heat-you have more money for the upstairs renovating.Re-use that insulation in your garage.My man,insulated his bay,we put up a wall & doorway in between our bays to contain the heat when he wants to work out there.The pink insulation was given to us by someone renovating his attic.We have a cape style,we do not heat the bedrooms upstairs,just put in 3 registers, $5.00 each, and by natural gravity,the upstairs is plenty warm for sleeping-,65*.I have a curtain hung on the stairway,so not too much heat goes up the stairwell,by opening or closing, I can control the amount of heat that actually goes up,its a noticeable difference. Our cellar door opens into the kitchen,instead of leaving it open all the time{because of the occasional mouse-rodents},we took out the middle panel,used hardware cloth.I thought this year I'd add a piece of cheesecloth or some very light fabric just for a filter for dust.Even if you can only afford to do 1/2 this year- then 1/2 next year,you'll be glad you did it.

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offcoursey
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Joined: Sat. Apr. 10, 2010 8:42 am
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glacier Bay
Stove/Furnace Model: Glacier bay
Location: Perkasie PA

Post Thu. Dec. 23, 2010 6:57 am

The stove has not been able to heat the entire house yet. I found some advise (on this awesome forum of course!) and placed a box fan on my basement steps blowing into the basement(where the stove is) and cut a return vent into the far side of the house. As soon as I cut the hole for the vent, I could feel the cold air going down to the basement and hot air going up the stairwell. I could smell a faint smell of oil from my oil burner that is on the cold side of the basement but after I cut in the vent, the smell went away. Is that strange? Now the house has been 72* and the oil burner has not come on for heat. I think with the amount of cold air coming through the new vent, I need a couple more cut in.

CapeCoaler
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Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove
Location: Cape Cod, MA

Post Thu. Dec. 23, 2010 8:22 am

Cold air returns are just as important as hot air risers...
Without the ability to make the return to the stove to be reheated you get a blocking effect...
For the cold air return run a section of duct straight down to within 24" of the floor to get past the warm air at the ceiling...
I am not an engineer, train or otherwise!
I stay at a Holiday Inn at least once a year!
Most of all I do have common sense and a practical application of logic.
Oh, add humor, on the dry side, along with a wee bit 'o sarcasm.

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offcoursey
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Posts: 171
Joined: Sat. Apr. 10, 2010 8:42 am
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glacier Bay
Stove/Furnace Model: Glacier bay
Location: Perkasie PA

Post Thu. Dec. 23, 2010 8:29 am

The way that air moves around the house is very interesting! Thanks for the idea! I need to get some of those Incense(sp?) sticks.

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Adamiscold
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Location: Winchendon,Ma

Post Thu. Dec. 23, 2010 8:40 am

offcoursey wrote:The way that air moves around the house is very interesting! Thanks for the idea! I need to get some of those Incense(sp?) sticks.
You could also try a balloon half filled with helium. They float nicely with the moving air through out your house.
Adam

http://www.homepower.com <-- Great magazine.

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Cap
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman SF 250, domestic hot water loop, heat accumulator
Coal Size/Type: Nut and Stove
Other Heating: Heat Pumps
Location: Lehigh Twp, PA
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Post Thu. Dec. 23, 2010 9:54 am

I wouldn't be too quick to remove all of the basement ceiling insulation if you cool your home in summer with central air the way I do. My stove is in the basement. I have one 18"x18" vent cut into the floor directly above the stove with 6" stove pipe pulling ALL of the blower heat from the stove filling the living area. Seems to work ok. Some additional heat flows up the basement steps along the ceiling as the cool air drops down the steps down low. You definitely need that circulation of air movement throughout the house.

Remember, in order to warm a room, you must remove the cool air.
Cap
Lehigh Twp.
Northampton Co., PA

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stonyloam
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Stove/Furnace Make: vermont casting
Stove/Furnace Model: vigilant
Location: Western NY

Post Sat. Dec. 25, 2010 10:13 am

WessWackos wrote: When the fans blow the hot air around, it cools off on it's way across the room, do I actually "lose" the heat? I'm so retarded when it comes to physics it isn't funny.
All you have to remember is heat and temperature are two different things. When you move the air, you do not loose heat (thermal energy), but you do lower the temperature (measurement of thermal energy) of the air mixing the warmer air with the cooler.

With your house you are looking for maximum heat transfer. You are basically heating two different ways. Downstairs you are heating by convection (heating air by contact with the stove) and radiation (infrared heating of objects in the room). Upstairs right now you are heating by convection only (air circulation). Basically right now your house is unbalanced and you need to bring it into equilibrium, so it is comfortable both up and down. Your best tool is convection, but for proper convection heating you need a loop so the air can circulate easily from down to up and back down. with only one door any cold air returning is in conflict with warm air rising. If you take some temperature measurements upstairs and can find a cool spot that might be a good place for a cold air return to the downstairs. Removing the basement insulation will also help by adding new methods of heating, contact (warm floor on feet), convection (air contact with floor) and radiation (from warm floor). All you have to remember is heat flows from warm to cold and you have to figure out the smoothest path for that to happen. Sorry didn't mean to ramble. :roll:
Terry

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