New to Hard Coal Burning and Have Some Questions

I just bought a Hitzer 254 this summer and after some trial and error have gotten the fire to stay in for a month. (Yeah for me, quite the daunting task).
Here is some information that may/may not be pertinent to my situation: I converted the garage into a family room (400 sq/ft); there is a hallway 3 feet wide into the rest of the house with a laundry/mud room in between. I installed a duct with a fan in it, that goes from the family room, through the mud room and into the kitchen to force some of the heat throughout the rest of the house. This was done because it seemed the hot air and colder air created a vacuum in the hallway ( this has helped some ). The rest of the house is heated using oil and I was hoping the coal fire would help heat the rest of the house; at least keep the temperature above 62 so the oil furnace would not kick in as much (thermostat is located at the far end of the house).

I would like to get more heat, not only into the family room, but into rest of the house. Especially on the very cold winter nights that are coming up.

Questions:
1) I am getting blue flames shooting up if I turn the dial higher than 8 - 8.5. Some of the flames are really high. Am I not letting all of the gases burn out before I set the dial or will these eventually die down? Should I have blue flames? I am getting the family room temp to about 75 constantly but the house is still cool enough the oil to kick in (not as much as it normally would have, but then again the outside temps are in the mid 20's)

2) I only fill the coal up to the bottom of the glass door (1/2 way I think on the fire brick). I have had no problem having the fire last 8-10 hrs only filling it up this high. Could this be a problem with the flames in question 1? Would filling it up give me more heat? I would love to have more heat generated, but am not sure how to get this. If I turn the blower on, in a few minutes I get the blue flames dancing again.

I guess for now those are the only two questions I have. Depending on the answers I may have more.

I appologize for any incorrect terminology, but again I am new at this.

Thanks in advance for any help that anyone can give me.

Since you are getting your family room to 75* then I don't think it's a problem of how you are running your stove. It looks like a problem of how the heat moves in your house. What kind of central heat do you have? Forced hot air? Hot water? steam?

If you have forced hot air, you might be able to use the air handler of your furnace to help distribute the heat. Got a floor plan you could post?

dj

Hi DLJ. Thanks for responding. Just one question that keeps bothering me (as I am now banking the fire off for the night); Should I have the blue flames or do I need to turn the dial down just to the point they go away? I did finally close the pull out damper all the way earlier tonight and got some more heat out of it.
The house is a 1 and a 1/2 story, counting the family room total living area (upstairs and downstairs is roughly 1300 sq ft). I have a sheet hanging blocking the upstairs since it has it is on its own zone for oil and we keep it set at 52 as we don't use it other than when someone stays over.

JohnnyV wrote:Hi DLJ. Thanks for responding. Just one question that keeps bothering me (as I am now banking the fire off for the night); Should I have the blue flames or do I need to turn the dial down just to the point they go away? I did finally close the pull out damper all the way earlier tonight and got some more heat out of it....

Please explain what you are doing when you say you are banking the fire for the night. One of the benefits of burning coal is that it doesn't need to be "banked" in order to make it through the night. Most of us tend the stove every 12 to 15 hours and some of us even can make it 24 hours routinely without touching the stove. There is no banking the stove in order to make through the night. That's something you have to do with a wood fire. With a coal stove you just fill it up to the top of the fire bricks and as long as it has a strong coal bed, it burns. You control the heat production by the amount of under the fire air you introduce to the coal bed. The more air that passes through the coal bed the more blue flames you get. These flames are often referred to as "Dancing Blue Ladies." They are caused by the hot air burning off the volatile gases being released as the coal is heated. Generally, they are a good thing because they produce heat. However, if allowed to burn out of control they can cause the stove to over fire. The trick is allowing them to burn where there are enough to produce the heat you want but not intense enough to damage your stove.

I'm not familiar with your particularly stove but what does the "pull out damper" do? I'm going to assume it closes off the over the fire air flow which is why you got some more heat out of it. Again, coal produces heat from the amount of air flowing up through the coal bed; more air, more heat. Any over the air fire is counterproductive and many actually make the coal bed go out.

Without any additional information, I'd say - every 10 to 12 hours allow the fire to recharge by opening your under the fire air source to the max. When the blue ladies are dancing, shake your coal bed . Allow it to recharge again - producing a lot of dancing blue ladies, Then add more coal so that the fire box is filled to the top of the firebricks, allow it to recharge again and then close the doors and forget it for 12 hours or more. This should take all of 10 or 15 mins. As a safety factor never, never leave the room with the under air source open to the max. You can lose control of the fire faster then you can say Jackie Robinson! As a reminder, I always set a timer whenever I have my lower door open. That timer has saved me too many times to count.

Just wondering, do you have a baro installed on your black pipe? How about any surface thermometers on the stove so you know just how hot the stove is running? Please continue to ask any questions that may come to mind. I'm sure someone more familiar with your stove will chime in soon. Lisa

Blue flames are fine it is just the coal gasses burning off...
More blue flames are created at the beginning with new coal and they will lessen later in the burn...
Fill the coal to the top of the fire bricks...
Coal wants a deep bed to burn well...
More coal will give you a longer burn and more heat if you need it...
The amount of heat is controlled by the amount of air you give the fire...
Not by the amount of coal in the stove...
Sounds like you burned wood before...
If so forget everything about wood fires...
Coal is a different beast...
The direct draft damper should be shut for the most heat...
The damper holds the heat in the stove and provides a longer heat path within the stove...

JohnnyV wrote:I installed a duct with a fan in it, that goes from the family room, through the mud room and into the kitchen to force some of the heat throughout the rest of the house. This was done because it seemed the hot air and colder air created a vacuum in the hallway ( this has helped some ).

The duct looks like it is in a good location to provide natural convention. I take it is located as high to the ceiling as you can and that you are blowing the air into the kitchen. But what size is the duct, square, round ? The larger the better in my opinion. As far as the other three rooms off the kitchen you could put a vent above the doors on each side to allow the air to flow between the rooms without having to go below the door jam.... Just some thoughts from looking at your diagram.

Thanks for the replies. I will answer any questions in order I got them.

lowfog01: Yes, did burn wood before, thus the term "banking". What I meant was "tend" the fire the final time of the day.
The pullout damper does close the over the fire air.
No, I don't have a baro installed on the black pipe. I bought one in case I needed it, but the sales rep told me to try it without it. Most people he
knows don't use one. I also don't have a thermometer on the stove. Should I get one? If so, where would a get one (is it a special thermometer)?

CapeCoaler: Yes, I burned wood before. It is hard to forget what you are used to. Although, I am trying my best (lol).
It appears that I am not adding enough coal by only filling it up half way.
I should also keep the direct draft damper shut.

cntbill: The duct is located as high to the ceiling as I can get it. The only problem is that the family room has a vaulted ceiling and the laundry room/kitchen
rooms don't. So I have the duct the height of the kitchen/laundry room ceiling in the family room so that it is a direct shot. I do have a very large
ceiling fan running in the family room to distribute the heat.
The duct is 8 inches with a 400 fps fan inside and is round.

Thanks again all for your responses. I appreciate that there are people out there willing to help a newbie out. Before I found this site, it was all trial and a lot more error (lol). When I tend the fire this morning I am going to make some of the changes you guys suggested and see what happens.

It only gets better from here...
Soon you will be getting plenty of inexpensive coal heat 24/7...

I know it sounds odd, but I'd try a small fan on the floor of the kitchen blowing cool air towards the stove room. First place I'd try is in the corner of the kitchen just above where your word "Attic" is on the other side of the wall. By blowing cool floor air towards the stove you'll create a loop with your hot air up high and your cool air on the floor. I use a thru-wall fan moving heat with a small fan on the floor blowing back the hallway to the stove room with great results. Without the floor fan, not so much. BTW, I get little 10 inch square fans at Walgreens to move the floor air. They're quiet, don't stick out like a sore thumb and take up much less room than a normal box fan. It doesn't take much, just get the loop going.

Sounds like good suggestion. Does it effect your draft in any way?

JohnnyV wrote:Thanks for the replies. I will answer any questions in order I got them.

lowfog01: Yes, did burn wood before, thus the term "banking". What I meant was "tend" the fire the final time of the day.
The pullout damper does close the over the fire air.
No, I don't have a baro installed on the black pipe. I bought one in case I needed it, but the sales rep told me to try it without it. Most people he
knows don't use one. I also don't have a thermometer on the stove. Should I get one? If so, where would a get one (is it a special thermometer)?

There are times when you will want to open the pullout damper, for instance when you are recharging the fire but for the majority of time this damper needs to be closed in order for you to maximize the under fire draft and heat production.

You may want to consider installing the barometric damper or baro on your black pipe. When properly set with a manometer this damper will pull non conditioned air from your room and leave the conditioned air in your stove to be used for heat. Most people find a baro provides a more steady burn, saving coal. There has been a lot of postings done on the pro and cons of baros; do a search using using the search function in the upper right hand corner. My first year using a baro resulted in having about 1/4 of a ton of coal left over at the end of the season and I only used the baro for a month or so.

Most people have two thermometers on their stoves; one on the stove body and one on the black pipe after the baro. Knowing the operating temperature of stove can help you determine if the stove is producing heat even when there are no flames showing. As you begin to know your stove you will come to know stuff like a stove temp of 400* equates to a room temp of 77* if the outside temp is 20*. That's just an example, each stove and air setting is different. Those are my actual readings from this morning. I also know that a stove temp of 180* with an outside temp of 45* will produce the same 77* room temp. A thermometer is also good so you can avoid an over firing situation. The after baro thermometer will allow you to determine how much heat your baro is allowing you to keep. Stove temperature minus after baro temperature equals how much heat you are not losing up your chimney but are keeping in your stove instead. Any stove store and big box stores will have magnetic burn indicators or thermometers.

CapCoaler is right, it sounds like you are on your way. You just have to refine what you are doing. Good luck, Lisa

Welcome to the forum.

1st question I have for you is, What type of heat do you have? Is it forced hot air oil furnace?

If so, can you set your blower to run all the time? thats what I do and the house stays a nice even temp thru out the entire house.

Banking/sloping coal is a good thing. Fill to the top of the fire bricks all the way around. Now lets bank/slope some coal, to do this all you need to do is pile on in the middle to create a bank just like on a hill side. Some fellas bank to the top of the baffles (baffles are normally at the very top/roof of the inside of where you are putting your coal)

Like was said here before move the cold air to the stove with a small fan and the heat of the stove will do the rest. Convection it's a good thing.

jeromemsn: I have hot water baseboard heat in the house. I am not sure on leaving the blower running. It seems after about 10 minutes of having the blower on the blue flames are shooting pretty high (maybe I have to close the draft on the back all the way, when I am running the blower; although it is only open a hair).

lowfog01: I think if we get the January thaw for a few days, I may let the fire out and put the baro in and try it. Maybe I will get more heat out of it. I don't know about saving coal as I am not going through all that much. Today I went shopping for 10 hrs and when I got home the fire was real good and that was only by filling it up 1/2 way. I am trying to get used to filling it up all the way, but want to be home to keep an eye out on it for the settings. That way I would feel better about it being safe. I think my main problem is I am a lot on the cautious side and may not be letting it burn to what it should be burning at. I will probably get there in time though as I am new to this.

Next time I go to the box stores or stove store I am going to get two of the thermometers. It sounds like you can tell a lot from them.

Another Question: I am still not getting much heat into the living room. The oil furnace kicks in (less that it used to, and runs for a lesser amt of time), but the thermostat still says 62. The kitchen is around 70. I am wondering if I should crack open a window in the bedroom to draw the heat toward the thermostat? Other than that I am clueless.....unless I move the thermostat closer to the kitchen, but still in the living room. I am going to build a removeable wall at the top of the steps and put reflective insulation on it to reflect the heat back down; the heat may be trying to get to the thermostat but rounds the corner and goes right up the steps. We'll see if this works and I will let you know if this works.

Thanks for all of the help and suggestions.

So the rear of your stove looks like this, correct?

The "blower" is used to blow the hot air off the stove and into the room. It does not help in making the fire hotter.

The dial on the rear left is what is used in making the fire hotter.

Per Hitzer,

STARTING YOUR FIRE ---- FUEL TO BE USED IS COAL

Your HITZER heater is designed to burn coal with the heavy-duty cast iron grate. When burning hard coal (anthracite), we suggest the use of either pea or nut size coal. When burning soft coal (bituminous) use either nut or stove coal. Usually a low volatile coal gives the best results.

Make sure the automatic dial heat draft regulator is open. Pull damper handle all the way out if applicable. The damper handle is located above fuel door and opens up the flue exit to the chimney. To start bituminous coal place a small amount of kindling over some paper and some coal should be placed over kindling. Ignite the paper. As soon as kindling is burning freely, add a scuttle full of coal. When the coal is well ignited one or two more scuttles can be added. To start anthracite coal place a small amount of crumbled
paper in firebox, place a small amount of kindling and ignite the paper. When kindling is burning add approximately 2 inches of coal over entire grate area. When coal is burning good and glowing red add 2 more inches of coal. Once this deep bed of coal is burning good you can add as much as you need to extend the burn time. However, the coal level should NOT come above the top of the firebrick.

NEVER……use flammable liquid gasoline, gasoline-type lantern fuel, kerosene, charcoal lighter fluid or similar liquid to start your fire or to freshen up your fire in this heater. Keep all such liquids well away from your heater while in operation.

This direct damper can be left open for a few minutes to speed up the starting. Now adjust automatic dial heat for desired room temperature. The direct damper may be adjusted for desired amount of heat and speed of burn.

ADJUSTING THE CONTROL

When the room temperature reaches the desired degree, turn the control knob on the regulator until the draft damper just closes. The heater should then maintain a uniform temperature without further attention so long as fuel is available. Sudden changes in outside temperature may make it necessary to turn the control knob slightly toward warmer or cooler from time to time. We do not advise turning the regulator back more than one position at night and usually it is more satisfactory to allow the heater to operate with the regulator in the same position day and night, as it takes no more fuel to maintain the temperature back to normal in the morning.

SNAP ACTION DAMPER

This HITZER heater is furnished with our exclusive magnet snap action damper. In cases where ideal chimney and draft conditions are lacking, this damper will substantially reduce creosote and soot due to poor draft. The action is adjustable over a wide range and can be set to suit particular conditions.

The magnet should never be brought forward so far that the damper lid actually contacts it, as this causes too much snap action and may give trouble with creosote and soot sticking the lid to the damper. Once a year, or more often, if needed, any tarry material that deposits on the underside of the damper lid should be scraped off.

ADDING FUEL

Just before adding fuel make sure your damper is completely open before opening fuel door. You will need to shake your grates until some live coal ash appears, in the ash pan. Then add the amount of coal needed to hold the fire for another 8 to 10 hours. ( you must avoid covering all the red coals when reloading.)

lowfog01..Can you tell me the formula you use to determine stove temp..outside temp....resulting in room inside temp. I'd be interested in knowing how to figure this. Thanks.