When to Stop Shaking?

 
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caesar10211
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Post by caesar10211 » Mon. Dec. 28, 2009 5:35 am

I've been burning coal now for three years, and every day I do is another lesson that I happily welcome. The more I learn here, the better I've been burning. Lately I have been having an issue with removing the ash. I've dialed in on my Russo 2 CW, and have all but eliminated clinkers, and unburned coal. ( Knock on wood) But, when it comes to reloading the stove, I've been spending what I think is an unreasonable amount of time getting it going again, and I think it's because of the amount of ash I'm removing at one time. At first, after a burn (when I would wake in the morning), I would open the ash door and manual damper, let the remaining coals get good and hot, and then shake and add more coal. I was very cautious not to over shake. Seemed to be working, but after about four days of this, there were areas of ash built up in the the corners of the fire box that became a bear to clean out. I was starting to end up with unburned coal in the corners, and fly ash in the centers. :gee: So I wasn't shaking enough. Ok. Start the whole process over, only this time I would shake it more. Only this time, I find myself removing too much ash, which we all know affects the fire, and I would spend a whole bunch of time trying to nurse it back with some kindling, and small scoops of coal. This process wasn't going to work either. Too time consuming, and I haven't heard anybody else have to struggle like this. :( As of late, I just open the ash door, and start sprinkling small amounts of coal onto the red coals. Slowly the firebox is built back up to a good level, and I can shake out the old ash, but this even took me over an hour to complete. :shock: This is where my NEPA friends come in.... what, if anything can I do differently, so I'm not reloading for such a long time? And how much ash should I remove? Any advice will be greatly appreciated.


 
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New Hope Engineer
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Post by New Hope Engineer » Mon. Dec. 28, 2009 6:40 am

i shake down till I see a fair amount of hot stuff fall through the grates, then in poke up from the bottom around the corners to get the rest of the crap out.lastly I load it up to the top of the bricks and leave the ash door open till I have a fair amount of blue flames in the fire bed,then shut the ash door and repeat 12 hours later. :D
i also vacum up around the stove with a small shop vac and wipe the glass down before I walk away.the whole process takes around 15-20 minutes.

 
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lowfog01
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Post by lowfog01 » Mon. Dec. 28, 2009 8:25 am

How weird! I experienced the same thing this morning. It took FOREVER to refresh the stove so I could shake and reload it for the day. The stove top temp was 200* and it was putting out appropriate heat but it just don’t want to get any hotter. I had the ash pan door open and I periodically opened the load door to allow building gases to be pulled out of the stove by the over the fire draft. I even had to cover the barro with foil. It was strange because my ash pan area was glowing red but no dancing ladies. I always want the Blue dancers to visit before I do anything to the stove. That being said….

I think the New Hope Engineer is on the right track. ;) Some stoves just need a little extra poking to give up the ash build up in the corners. On my Harman it's not the corners but rather just inside the loading door, along the front. I watch the shadows being cast by the coal bed in the ash pan area and if I see any particularly dark spots I pull out my $1.50 poker the guy at Ace hardware made from a steel rod and wooden handle. After I do some poking I re-shake the stove and I'm usually amazed at what came out. What kind of coal are you using? Pea coal will cause a deeper build up of ash and it's generally harder to shake down then nut. I hope this helps, Lisa

P.S. I never shake the stove down with the ash pan door open. I understand that some stove models don't allow you to shake the stove with the door closed but if yours does you may want to rethink shaking with the door open. Rather then watching the embers fall through the grates, I've found other ways to determine if I've shaken enough - the coal bed drops 3 or 4 inches as viewed through the window, my air intake valve allows me to see if the ash area is glowing or my shaking is crunching unburnt coal. Flyash is an ever present component of burning coal but it can be reduced.

 
titleist1
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Post by titleist1 » Mon. Dec. 28, 2009 8:49 am

I agree with you, an hour to reload and refresh is too much. I also have a Harman Mark stove like Lowfog and end up using the poker to scrape along the front of the stove to get rid of the ash build up after about 4-5 days. I think each stove has its own personality and your Russo probably needs a couple extra minutes of poker attention to keep it from getting built up as suggested by NewHope. Maybe it's during each reload or maybe it's every couple days. I also run the poker through the coal bed a little looking for large clinkers when I am cleaning out the front ash but over the years that seems to depend on what coal I am burning more than anything.

One thing to mention about the Mark stoves is that they have a baffle over the fire bed where fly ash accumulates. In my setup, I clean this area and the exhaust port in the back after 6-8 weeks of burning or it affects the draft which will affect the ability of the stove to recover. It also affects the heat output of the stove as pointed out by Coalkirk in other threads. Maybe the Russo has something similar?

 
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lowfog01
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Post by lowfog01 » Mon. Dec. 28, 2009 8:57 am

titleist1 wrote: One thing to mention about the Mark stoves is that they have a baffle over the fire bed where fly ash accumulates. In my setup, I clean this area and the exhaust port in the back after 6-8 weeks of burning or it affects the draft which will affect the ability of the stove to recover.
Hey, thanks for reminding me of that baffle! I bet that's what's affecting my fire. I have been idling for the better part of the season and I have been much more careful about getting the flyash to go up and out the chimney rather into my living space. This week we are supposed to have a warming trend so having already lost my membership in the one match club for this year, I'll let the fire die out over tomorrow and the stove cool down and clean that baffle out.

I'm always learning or relearning something on the Forum. Thanks again, Lisa

 
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SMITTY
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Post by SMITTY » Mon. Dec. 28, 2009 10:08 am

Always takes me longer to reload in this weather ( reloaded at 40° outside temp). My draft that's usually .04" with a low fire will be .025"-.03" ... takes forever to get the fresh coal burning again ... but it's because I get impatient & start piling it on. Couple that with the low draft & it'll take a good hour or so to get it going. This is when I usually walk away & forget the door is open! :shock: :lol:

I poke the fire from above. Shake first, then poke, then shake again. Then get a layer of coal on there with some weight, & shake again. I find the more ash I get out, the longer/better it burns.

 
DonnaK
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Post by DonnaK » Mon. Dec. 28, 2009 7:40 pm

I've been burning coal now for three years, and every day I do is another lesson that I happily welcome
This is my second year burning and your're right..everyday is another lesson.
How weird! I experienced the same thing this morning.
Me too. As a matter of fact for the last three days. I've been blaming it on low barometric air pressure here, but it's been an absolute bear to get going in the morning. even though there seems to be a good bed of hot coals left. I lit my first match in the beginning of Nov. and it's been burning great until now but I nearly lost the fire completely on Saturday and again this morning. Think I'll give the poking up through the grates a try and see if that helps.


 
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caesar10211
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Post by caesar10211 » Mon. Dec. 28, 2009 7:49 pm

Thanks for your thoughts guys and gals. I really do appreciate them. I will give them a try when I get home tomorrow. (at work right now.) Lisa, I'm burning Reading nut coal. I've found that the increase in ash is due to me burning better, not the size of the coal I'm burning. I'm more comfortable and understand it better, thus I'm loading more and getting better burns. ( Just when you think you've got it, you find another hoop to learn to jump through) Such is life. I can't wait to see if the suggestions work. Thanks again fellow coal burners.

 
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cybdav
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Post by cybdav » Mon. Dec. 28, 2009 10:49 pm

I am new to burning coal this year with a new Mark III. One thing I have found so far is the hotter I burn the more I need to shake it. Maybe that's a "DUH!"

When it is cold, like now at 24, I shake it not twice a day but a third time before I go to bed. I also throw another bucket on at this time. 30's twice a day and 50's once a day.

 
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SMITTY
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Post by SMITTY » Mon. Dec. 28, 2009 10:55 pm

I forgot to add that I usually stop shaking after my 7th drink ..... but hey, who's counting! :woot: toothy :drunk:

 
pastorjohn
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Post by pastorjohn » Mon. Jan. 04, 2010 1:06 pm

I stumbled onto a great product which has helped me out of the painful process of trying to reverse a coal fire going out, or can be use to speed up the time it takes to get things burning hot again when you have some "dead spots". The stuff is called 'cowboy hardwood lump charcoal", and is sold at Loews. It burns fast and hot. Simply put a few scoop fulls of this charcoal right on top of any "dead spots" (it doesn't take much) making sure some of it is over an area where it's still burning. This ensures that the charcoal will catch. Open the ash door, let it catch, then start adding coal right on top of it. within 20 minutes you'll be burning fine. You'll have to tweek things depending upon what you're trying to do, but I guarantee you'll be impressed. I guess the stuff is great to cook with, it sears the meat better than the regular charcoal.

 
Thomas12980
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Post by Thomas12980 » Mon. Jan. 04, 2010 2:50 pm

Vogelzang Pot Bellied stove
I wrote to two others in this forum who have vogelzang pot bellied stoves about a modification I made in place of the shaker grate supplied with my stock stove. As far as shaking down the burnt ash, my procedure is: I add three scoop fulls of coal evenly on the coal bed. I open the ash door damper all the way and wait until the blue flames show up. I then open the small side door and using the spring handle, open the modified shaker grate. I then go to the front, open the ash door and use a bent piece of one-eighth black pipe inserted up into the round grate openings and wobble the pipe around until some glowing coals drop down. I do this in several of the grate openings. A lot of ash and small clinkers drop down. What you'll find is that as the coal burns it forms a cone in the firebox. If you were to poke at it with a rod, this coned area drops down and almost smothers the fire/flame, so be careful. When I'm finished, I go to the side opening and using the spring handle push the grate in and out a few times until a little glowing ash drops down, then I close the grate all the way. Because of its construction, the grate handle sticks out a bit and the door won't close all the way. Close the ashpan door and leave the damper openings wide open. Open the front door and load a couple more scoops of coal into the depression formed when you shook down the ash. Once this coal starts, close the manual damper almost all the way and close the ashpan damper about halfway. Before you leave the stove, empty out the ashpan. There's something about the burnt ash that seems to slow the fire a touch - maybe the sulfides in the ash ???

 
Lola Coalfire
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Post by Lola Coalfire » Tue. Jan. 05, 2010 5:10 am

pastorjohn wrote:I stumbled onto a great product which has helped me out of the painful process of trying to reverse a coal fire going out, or can be use to speed up the time it takes to get things burning hot again when you have some "dead spots". The stuff is called 'cowboy hardwood lump charcoal", and is sold at Loews. It burns fast and hot. Simply put a few scoop fulls of this charcoal right on top of any "dead spots" (it doesn't take much) making sure some of it is over an area where it's still burning. This ensures that the charcoal will catch. Open the ash door, let it catch, then start adding coal right on top of it. within 20 minutes you'll be burning fine. You'll have to tweek things depending upon what you're trying to do, but I guarantee you'll be impressed. I guess the stuff is great to cook with, it sears the meat better than the regular charcoal.
Cool, pastor! I will look for cowbow charcoal. I use a "cowgirl solution" when I come home to a suspiciously low fire. I jamb a few sticks of Fatwood down into the coal bed. Soon, they ignite giving the dead-beat coal members a boost. :) "Thanks for sharing," as the phrase goes.
Lola

 
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Freddy
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Post by Freddy » Tue. Jan. 05, 2010 5:35 am

titleist1 wrote:using the poker to scrape along the front of the stove to get rid of the ash build up
Yup.... Lot's of stoves need to be tickled from underneath to keep them happy. I make custom pokers from 1/8" steel rod for each hand fed stove. Play around some, every stove is different. Underpoke after shaking, before shaking, instead of shaking! You'll find where it likes to be tickled and what works best for your stove.

 
hyway61
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Post by hyway61 » Wed. Jan. 06, 2010 10:00 am

I have a Russo #55 I think it is....too bad the ash pan isn't deeper. I don't think all shaker systems are created equal....with this square box Russo 'poking' from the bottom is mandatory and occassionally from the top, too....to break up ash bridges and clear the corners. As long as the ash goes on thru to the ash pan oxygen will fuel the fire and draft mangement becomes a whole lot more automatic and easier. I start to loose draft with my setup when stove top temp drops to around 200*. Never mess much with a dying fire and esp. when draft isn't pulling. Saving a dying fire is an art form and everybody has a trick. I have one trick that didn't work so well last night.

hyway61


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