What Should the Fire *Look* Like?

jpete wrote:When touching the stove pipe, if your hand is merely "uncomfortable" then I'm going to call that too hot. I can lay my palm on the stove pipe above my baro damper and leave it there for several minutes. Actually, I could probably hold it there all day. My house seems similar to yours minus the insulated basement. My Mark I is heating around 1900 sq ft raised ranch from an unfinished basement. House was built in 1973 and has cheap single pane windows. In fact, there is more than one place where I can see clear to the outside through gaps around them. Without any effort I can be mid 70's to 80* downstairs and 68-74* upstairs. You'll get this figured out with the help of these guys. No problem at all.

I might have that baro damper as a second or third option to try. I think at this point my next course of action...as it doesn't mean another trip around timbuktu to buy and then install another component ... is to see if my stove has some kind of restriction plate on the back damper, and if so remove it to increase airflow and maybe increase the heat that way. Others on the forums (in other threads I think) mentioned this plate being recently added to Hitzers and I bought this thing last summer, so it's possible it has one and some have suggested that I'm not getting enough airflow into it. More air going in = more heat, yeah?

If it's an easy couple of screws to remove and then replace the flapper part, then if this doesn't work it shouldn't be hard to put it back. Plus I don't have to yet again have the fire extinguish and relight it! I'm thinking I'll have to do that if I get a baro damper

bsilver wrote:...I'm not surprised that when I add fresh coal on top of the pile, the temp on top of the stove falls (rather dramatically) for awhile. But after 8 or 12 hours, there's still black coals on top, with red peeking through (and some blue flame jumping up occasionally).

What you describe here seems completely normal for any hand fired stove to me. That's exactly what my Harman does. Adding fresh coal is the quickest way to cool down an over fired stove. The stove front/top temperature is going to drop as the fire's energy is redirected to getting the new coal hot enough to burn. It all depends on the air intake and the temperature you're trying to achieve as to whether or not you will have active flames or can just see some red peeking out of the coal. Sometimes I never see the blue ladies dancing at all and my coal bed appears "filled to the top of the firebricks" even though it’s been burning for hours. The fire looks good and dead. This is especially true while idling the stove. My coal bed may drop 3 or 4 inches when I finally shake it. It took me a while to catch on but I now know the fire is there and burning strong because of the thermometers on the front of the stove and after the barro whether I can see any flames or not. I always refresh my stove before reloading or shaking it. It makes my life easier. Lisa

bsilver wrote: I might have that baro damper as a second or third option to try. I think at this point my next course of action...as it doesn't mean another trip around timbuktu to buy and then install another component ... is to see if my stove has some kind of restriction plate on the back damper, and if so remove it to increase airflow and maybe increase the heat that way. Others on the forums (in other threads I think) mentioned this plate being recently added to Hitzers and I bought this thing last summer, so it's possible it has one and some have suggested that I'm not getting enough airflow into it. More air going in = more heat, yeah?

While I know it's a pain to fork out the money and time to install the barometric damper, it really should be your next course of action. They aren't that expensive, IIRC around $25 for the one I put inline. I also bought a draft gauge to be sure the damper was set correctly for around $35.00.

I don't believe looking for a restriction is going to hurt you but your last sentence is the wrong way of thinking. If you don't have a barometric damper and either have too much draft or create too much all of that "more air in" is going to equal "more heat" as you say but it's going up the chimney and still not warming you.

Take a look around here for barometric damper threads. It took me a while to wrap my head around how they work but it makes a lot of sense. My damper is always at least halfway open with a 26' chimney so it's definitely working and saving my coal.

Get a manometer thru the loaner program or buy one online...
That will tell you what the draft is and then you can get this baby makin some heat...
No need to shut down for this test...
Just a small hole in the stove pipe...
Then you can setup that barometric damper...
I would never run a coal stove without one...
After I saw what a difference it made in the coal consumption and heat output...
On my first coal stove...

Yup, next step, first step, a barometric damper. I had a friend say "But if I put in a damper, then all that room air that I just heated will be going up the chimney". Yaaa, that's true, BUT.... would you rather have 75* air going up the chimney or an equal amount of 450* air going up the chimney? Even if you don't get your hands on a draft gauge (manomometer) right off, get a baro damper installed and set it by the numbered knob. Look on eBay for a Dwyer #25 ( not the #27!) manomometer. You can usually find them for $35 or so. Some sellers ask $75 or more...keep looking.

". We all know that coal stoves are not 100% efficient...heat going up the baro is just part of the "not 100%". Having a baro will bring it from <guessing> 40% efficient to about double that %.

I agree that a barometric damper will give more consistent operation, and I recommend installing one. However, the lack of a baro will not cause the lack of heat he is experiencing. These stoves are fairly unique in the way the combustion air enters the firebox through louvered pieces of cast iron, passes through the coal bed, and exits though the side of the firebox. The stronger the draft, the more air that passes through the coal bed and the hotter the stove will become.

I know three other people with model 82's, and I have helped each of them work through the same problems. In each case a few things had to be changed to improve the draft. Stove #1 wouldn't throw out any heat until the stovepipe was re-routed with one less elbow and the cleanout door was sealed. Stove #2 wouldn't throw out any heat until the baro. was adjusted to provide a stronger draft, and stove #3 actually wouldn't hold a fire at all with the existing 15' chimney, the owner had to add a few sections of 3' pipe before it would burn properly. Two of the three stoves do not have a baro. installed, and all three needed the restrictor plates removed.

When you have everything "tweaked" on this stove you will be impressed by the heat output. I remember one night last winter that was particularly cold and windy, I had loaded the stove up after dinner and set the dial at #14. I went into the basement a few hours later to check the stove. The weather conditions were creating a draft so strong that the baro. flap was pegged against the stops and I could hear air being in around the cleanout door and thimble...the magnetic thermometer on the stove body was sitting at a steady 600 degrees. I remember standing about 6 feet back from the stove and feeling like I was standing on the beach on a hot summer day.

-Robert

Rob R. wrote: I know three other people with model 82's, and I have helped each of them work through the same problems. In each case a few things had to be changed to improve the draft. Stove #1 wouldn't throw out any heat until the stovepipe was re-routed with one less elbow and the cleanout door was sealed. Stove #2 wouldn't throw out any heat until the baro. was adjusted to provide a stronger draft, and stove #3 actually wouldn't hold a fire at all with the existing 15' chimney, the owner had to add a few sections of 3' pipe before it would burn properly. Two of the three stoves do not have a baro. installed, and all three needed the restrictor plates removed.

The cleanout door..the one on the bottom of the chimney? Mine is fairly loose, doesn't take much to open it. How did they seal it up to prevent air leakage? Is there a specific product or is there a simple way to do that?

Available new on internet at reasonable prices
http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=26956 ... O=76184604

Bob

A good quality wide roll tape...
Duck brand duct tape, Gorilla Tape or aluminum tape.