Transition from wood to coal

 
k-2
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Post by k-2 » Mon. Apr. 01, 2024 4:33 pm

From what iv read the blaze kind can do a burn time longer(Iv heard as much as 40 hours)than just about any other wood stove however THAT IS AT A VERY LOW OUTPUT. Once you start cranking it up for more heat its about the same burn time as other wood stoves. The wood only has so many btus to give.


 
kodadog
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Post by kodadog » Mon. Apr. 01, 2024 4:38 pm

That is true, but it would be nice to idle it down like a stoker or hand fed on a 60 degree day knowing the night time will drop down to 30 like it is here today. Most wood burners you just have to let it die and start it up again, which I get is easier to do than with coal but still a nice option if time is crunched

 
Hoytman
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Post by Hoytman » Mon. Apr. 01, 2024 5:39 pm

You guys are forgetting one MAJOR difference.

With the BK you can idle it for 40+ hours … every day of the winter season (with an optimal insulated chimney) and STILL have a virtually clean chimney at the end of the burning season.

My friend’s chimney is NOT optimal … it’s a rectangle clay lined chimney and he gets less than a quart of flakey creosote deposits on a two-story chimney clay lined chimney. Would be even less if he had an “optimal” chimney (Sized to match the stove outlet and insulated to the top).

That is with wood that is 20% or less moisture content…which 20% is still wet wood by all intents and purposes. Drier the wood the cleaner it burns.

Will it burn green wood like a pre-epa stove will? No. But that is also what causes a lot of creosote. Why even go there?

A modern wood stove will never put out as much hear as a pre-epa wood stove will, but a modern stove is much cleaner with the same wood…and cleaner yet with even drier wood.

Bottom line…the BK functions as near a coal stove more than any other wood stove made…if you want to burn wood and have a stove operate, function, and burn as long as a modern coal stove.

Try idling any older wood stove for 40 hours … let alone without making a complete mess of the inside of your chimney which is what will happen.

I’m pretty well sold on finding a used one if I can find one based more on a local friends real world experience.

I did read on another forum where the VP of the company write that tests show their stoves are capable of 40-43 hours (King model…it has a bigger firebox/fuel tank) but he also said there have been numerous unofficial burns in excess of 50-55+ hours, and one burn longer than that, but again these were unofficial test results (by the company) but he wouldn’t comment on how they achieved that. They often and easily achieve their advertised burn times if installed according to manufacturers “optimal” installation recommendations.

Too many guys on forums getting 30-40 hour burns for it to be untrue.

Many claim these stoves are quite capable of pumping out a lot of heat as well. Let’s put it this way, I’ve only seen one forum poster on another forum claiming the stove didn’t perform as advertised AND didn’t put out enough heat. Me…I was skeptical of his reasons for the stove not functioning as intended…and quite honestly most folks simply do not do enough research on their own and often size their stove wrong to their home.

 
Hoytman
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Post by Hoytman » Mon. Apr. 01, 2024 5:41 pm

kodadog wrote:
Mon. Apr. 01, 2024 4:38 pm
That is true, but it would be nice to idle it down like a stoker or hand fed on a 60 degree day knowing the night time will drop down to 30 like it is here today. Most wood burners you just have to let it die and start it up again, which I get is easier to do than with coal but still a nice option if time is crunched
Unless a person does top down fires on restarts then doing too many cold starts can often contribute to lots of creosote.

I’ve found top down fires burn cleaner faster than a bottom started fire that smokes through most of the burn until the stove gets hot.

Anyway gang…I wanted to pass on some real world information to people needing to consider going back to wood burning because of high coal costs. My friend lives about 6 miles from me.

Oh…by the way he said he burned 2.5-3 cord a year with his other wood stoves. He just replied to my text a little while ago. Again, that means he went from burn 2.5-3 cords of wood to less than 1.5 cords of wood. I hope this information has been helpful to some of you.

 
kodadog
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Post by kodadog » Mon. Apr. 01, 2024 5:50 pm

Hoytman wrote:
Mon. Apr. 01, 2024 5:41 pm
Unless a person does top down fires on restarts then doing too many cold starts can often contribute to lots of creosote.

I’ve found top down fires burn cleaner faster than a bottom started fire that smokes through most of the burn until the stove gets hot.
True!
I'm seriously considering selling the Comfort max and picking up the BK Princess or Ashford. I like coal, but don't see much relief in sight until world situations change which is not likely for 3+ yrs

 
Hoytman
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Post by Hoytman » Mon. Apr. 01, 2024 5:54 pm

I can tell you that there are many satisfied Ashford users out there. Me personally, forget the ash pan drawer and go with the Princess (other than for looks).

That said, I’ve seen lots of complaints about the Ashford somehow giving off a creosote smell inside of people’s homes. For that reason “I’m out” on the Ashford until the consensus is the issue has been fixed … and we’re not there yet.

Like you I don’t see light at the end of the tunnel just yet … but I can hear a train coming. :lol:

I’d love to try a Comfortmax 75. I really like how they’re made. Too bad though, as I still feel the 75 is too much stove for my home size when burning wood … in order to burn it as clean as I would like.

 
kodadog
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Post by kodadog » Mon. Apr. 01, 2024 6:11 pm

The Max has a 2.3 cu ft firebox and the Princess 2.9 cu ft. I've had some conversations with 11ultra103 about his wood experiences with the Cmax. He's quite happy with it but still prefers coal for ease of use. Wish I could adapt a thermostatic control for over-fire air on it but that is on the front door and the bimetallic damper is for coal and doesn't help.


 
Hoytman
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Post by Hoytman » Mon. Apr. 01, 2024 9:46 pm

kodadog wrote:
Mon. Apr. 01, 2024 6:11 pm
The Max has a 2.3 cu ft firebox and the Princess 2.9 cu ft. I've had some conversations with 11ultra103 about his wood experiences with the Cmax. He's quite happy with it but still prefers coal for ease of use. Wish I could adapt a thermostatic control for over-fire air on it but that is on the front door and the bimetallic damper is for coal and doesn't help.
Have had many PM conversations with Ultra about his CMax75.
The problem with using a bi-metal regulator (what I call a thermostat) to control secondary air… is the temperature with which second air tubes need to be to maintain ignition…they burn around 1100-1200*F. No way the regulator could close and still maintain air supply to the secondary air tubes. The secondary air supply would need to remain open. Doing so it could maintain the ignition temperature hot enough to maintain ignition as well as a small variance of increased temperature above the ignition point; a small window of regulation at a temperature already burning super hot.

As such, secondary air tube stoves are very easy to oversize for a home. Ideally you’d want a secondary air tube stove sized to burn most of the stoves life at a medium burn rate. This takes lots of research and planning and even then it’s a crap shoot to get a stove sized right. One critically important thing to research is what is called the stoves “turn down rate”. Stoves with a high turn down rate have a larger burn rate window to be able to turn the stove down lower than other stoves.

For instance, you will notice from some manufacturers that their stoves advertisements for their models list a specific sized home or a range of sizes, say 1600-2000 sq ft. I can’t think of any in that range at the moment, but some manufacturers list stoves able to heat 900-2000 sq ft. SBI stoves has several brand names that have stove models with a larger range. The brand names Osburn, Drolet, come to mind under the SBI umbrella. Notice the range is larger? That means the “turn down rate” is lower so the stove can be turned down lower and still get somewhat of a clean burn compared to other stoves with a smaller range.

With regard to the CMax 75 and other coal stoves burning wood…the stove will need to pump out some heat while burning wood in order to burn as clean as possible. Otherwise, you can expect completely black glass and creosote inside your stove pipe and chimney…and this burn rate often over heats a home quickly compared to a steady even burn rate of coal. I inow it over heated my house in a hurry and made a mess inside my stove and chimney. Didn’t take me long to go back to “easy street” with coal and much lower stove temperatures to maintain a comfortable home temperature. Expect your wood consumption to be only slightly better than an old pre-epa stove.

 
SteveT
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Post by SteveT » Wed. Apr. 03, 2024 4:34 pm

Hoytman wrote:
Mon. Apr. 01, 2024 12:42 pm
These Blaze King, Lopi and a few other stoves are far too expensive for my blood purchased new. Every stove I own is used. I’m patient and look for the best deal I can get.

I’m not paying more than $2500 for any stove. In fact, remove that 2 and they’re more to my liking. :D
Seriously. I looked up the blaze kings - over $4k. I paid $800 new for my Jotul, but even those are over 4k now as well. Not paying 4k for a stove. That can get me 6 or 7 years of wood heat. I'll keep my eyes open for used.

 
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Post by SteveT » Wed. Apr. 03, 2024 4:34 pm

Hoytman wrote:
Mon. Apr. 01, 2024 12:42 pm
These Blaze King, Lopi and a few other stoves are far too expensive for my blood purchased new. Every stove I own is used. I’m patient and look for the best deal I can get.

I’m not paying more than $2500 for any stove. In fact, remove that 2 and they’re more to my liking. :D
Seriously. I looked up the blaze kings - over $4k. I paid $800 new for my Jotul, but even those are over 4k now as well. Not paying 4k for a stove. That can get me 6 or 7 years of wood heat. I'll keep my eyes open for used.

 
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Post by SteveT » Wed. Apr. 03, 2024 4:36 pm

Sorry for the double post. How do I delete that?

 
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Post by SteveT » Wed. Apr. 03, 2024 4:40 pm

warminmn wrote:
Mon. Apr. 01, 2024 4:26 pm
Remove the two 0's and thats more my style! :clap: I paid $22.50 at auction for the beast Im using now :angel:

Its nearly impossible to find a used coal stove here but they do pop up on occassion, mostly Harman's or Hitzers that a person would want. Its been a long time now though. I think we are looking for the same one, the 254, but I wouldnt turn down a Harman/Legacy either, especially the TLC-2000.
I see several stoves in my area on marketplace whenever I look. Some seem to be in pretty good shape for a fraction of the cost new.

 
waytomany?s
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Post by waytomany?s » Wed. Apr. 03, 2024 4:45 pm

SteveT wrote:
Wed. Apr. 03, 2024 4:40 pm
I see several stoves in my area on marketplace whenever I look. Some seem to be in pretty good shape for a fraction of the cost new.
Just ask about pros or cons of what you are going to go look at and everyone will chime in on what they have had for issues, etc.

 
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warminmn
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Post by warminmn » Wed. Apr. 03, 2024 5:01 pm

Im glad you can find one used. Seems like about 25% of new cost quite often as the new prices have really jumped on all of them the last couple years. I look on facebook marketplace out east once in a while for them, just to pass time. There are good foreign made ones too but for the most part I'd stick with USA made ones that still have parts available.

 
Hoytman
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Post by Hoytman » Wed. Apr. 03, 2024 5:16 pm

warminmn wrote:
Wed. Apr. 03, 2024 5:01 pm
Im glad you can find one used. Seems like about 25% of new cost quite often as the new prices have really jumped on all of them the last couple years. I look on facebook marketplace out east once in a while for them, just to pass time. There are good foreign made ones too but for the most part I'd stick with USA made ones that still have parts available.
Just so you're aware...just like my Lopi, Harmon parts are/were dealer only parts...Legacy may still only allow parts through a dealer...I don't know. Generally, dealer only parts are expensive. That might make Hitzer coal stoves a better choice for Steve, than any wood stove. I'm going to guess that BK also only offers parts through a dealer, but I'm not sure. Luckily for me, my particular Lopi has had very few parts failures over the two plus decades of my stoves design, so in that regard for major parts I'm good. Any part I might need from them would be small items...and even those will likely be more costly than they should be, but I'm not worried about it. Currently, there's nothing wrong with my Lopi :lol: :yes: stove.

The bad part about considering a catalyst stove of any brand is if at some point the federal government decides to get involved with raising prices of the replaceable catalysts, or if for some reason a war breaks out making the precious metals that make up the catalyst coatings, hard to get, which would render a cleaner "green" stove useless. The catalysts are already in excess of $200 and need replacing about every 12,000 burn hours.


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