Fire keeps dying overnight - Hitzer 254

warminmn wrote: ↑

Sat. Jan. 28, 2023 11:00 am

Good description! My woodstove has been hotter than a magnet falling a few times and it has held up. Its all sheet steel with a cast top, steel wrapped around and welded. Cast iron sides would have cracked. Im unsure why the top hasnt cracked. I guess Im lucky. The OP is using a steel stove but should still not be running this hot.

I should have reminded the other member to see manual or professional help on these things before acting on chat. There could be critically different and dangerous differences in our cases, so your milage may differ.

ShawnLiNy wrote: ↑

Sat. Jan. 28, 2023 10:37 am

If you haven’t hit 8-900* by leaving the ash door open ( until you smell something ) you haven’t actually left the ash door open . As Charles above the immediate danger for cast iron is bolts stretching, you have a perfectly functioning tight stove one day , 1 session of too hot ! and you have a wiggly mess the next , my stove at 600* is like trying to walk up to sun .

I start smelling stuff around, I estimate, 550. Definitely 600. (If the magnetic thermometer on the side says 500, I'm smelling stuff. Sometimes before then.) And this is in a different room, 30+ feet from the stove. And, we do keep it fairly clean. Yes, it is definitely like trying to work near the sun when it's that hot. I don't have much tolerance for it, but I have yet to burn myself severely... just a little finger nick here and there. For what it's worth, the stove is still tight and doesn't appear or feel like it has warped in any way.

Hoytman wrote: ↑

Sat. Jan. 28, 2023 11:02 am

Coal apparently will not work for you and your family. That’s ok!!! Find another way to heat your home.

There's always wood, but it has that pesky problem of me having to wake up in the middle of the night to re-fire it if I don't want to wake up to my house being <50 degrees.

Hoytman wrote: ↑

Sat. Jan. 28, 2023 11:02 am

“(Lately I haven't been messing with the rear thermostat much. It's been days since I last touched it.)”

It’s taken you a year to listen to us telling you to stop jacking with the rear dial and you are just now admitting to doing just that.

It took you a while to suggest that I should operate it using the ash pan door vents. You started out saying that I should leave them barely open or totally closed, and that a coal stove should be able to run only on the dial thermostat. It's been working, kind of. I'm now on one day after a restart, and it ran fine all day with lots of glow appearing after a moderate shake prior to loading.

Hoytman wrote: ↑

Sat. Jan. 28, 2023 11:02 am

We have told you a 10to15 degree, or 10to20 degree temperature difference in your home temperature, every day, will NOT work with a coal stove.

Not the way you like to run it, which is perhaps the easy way. But I think it can work. It requires that the fire remain at least lively enough overnight that it can rev up in the morning. That is the problem. I can't choke it off well enough to run it at like 300 (200 on the magnetic thermometer) overnight without it dying, and I think that has a lot to do with ash. On an ordinary winter night, it'd be fine if I could bring it down to 250-300 reliably. There are many mornings when I wake up and it's there, but it's not a given that I can rev it up. If I succeed in revving it up, it can hit 500 relatively quickly, and then I can turn the fans on and heat the house relatively quickly. Once I get the house to where it has to be, it'd be nice if I could choke it down to around 400-450 and keep it running all day. The ash has been getting in the way, more than a couple of days after a restart.

Hoytman wrote: ↑

Sat. Jan. 28, 2023 11:02 am

Think about it. You expect a 10 to 20 degree differential every day inside your home while at the same time outdoor temperatures constantly swing. One is in your control, the other is not. Neither are the fault of your stove or your home. You are the problem…the operator.

An ordinary home heating system, fueled by oil, gas, or electricity, has a thermostat that keeps the house within about a 5-degree range around a selected temperature. It accomplishes this by throttling up the heat when the house gets too cold, and shutting it off when the house is warm enough. I can make this happen, if need be, by revving the stove when the house gets too cold and then setting it to cruise at a higher temperature. That is, if I don't get ash. (Today it's been a breeze to operate it. Stayed at the right temperature all day, everything as it should be.)

Hoytman wrote: ↑

Sat. Jan. 28, 2023 11:02 am

We have consistently told you that consistent house temperature is what a coal stove likes best.

I’m sorry…there’s simply no way to compromise that.

I trust you. But I'm willing to put in the extra work to run it as I have to, to achieve this swing.

Hoytman wrote: ↑

Sat. Jan. 28, 2023 11:02 am

Forget about what is the highest temperature to run that stove. If you have to ask that, then it will never run hot enough for you. I suggest NOT running it so hard or you will put your family in danger. I hope you understand that because you don’t seem to have understood anything else. We have repeatedly told you how to be successful with this stove. Yo-yoing the temperature everyday is NOT going to cut it.

I understand plenty. If what you've been telling me has been all about achieving one temperature (or at least a very tight temperature range) that the house will stay at all day, it was never going to work. I did say, very early on, that we have to have that large swing for maximum comfort. (Even in the summer, we'll let the house run up to 80+, but then at night we turn on the AC or throttle up the fans to bring the house temperature down quickly.)

I wasn't looking to determine the maximum temperature I can run the stove at. The magnetic thermometer says that much over 550 is "overheated" and that means that it really hits 700 or so when it gets to that point. I don't need to run it that hard, unless we get a really bad cold snap. <=550 (temp gun reading) keeps the house as hot as it has to be, under almost all of our winter conditions. I just wanted to know how much room for error I have, since I did once negligently allow it to get up to 800 or so. The magnetic thermometer made it look like the equivalent of running an engine at 8,000 rpm when it redlines at 5,500.

Hoytman wrote: ↑

Sat. Jan. 28, 2023 11:02 am

I highly suggest finding another way to heat your home…or find somewhere else to live…a different wife…whatever…that’s all up to you.

Not trying to be rude, but life is about choices and compromise. A stove is no different than having a good friend…and to have any friends you have to put up with some things you don’t like…and you must compromise. You must compromise, not the stove operating parameters.

I think, after everything I've been through with it, that I could run it to my satisfaction if I could figure out how to keep it from getting ash-bound. Any suggestions on that one single front?

To prevent being ash bound is fairly simple. Shake it. If you're getting ash bound you're not shaking enough.

Yes, shake it more.

It would take a lot of reading thru posts, but its VERY common for people that havent figured out their stoves yet to start having trouble on the 3rd or 4th day, myself included. I would guess 90% of the time its because of too much ash. Shake til theres a fair amount of hot coals falling thru the grate for a while and see how that works as far as keeping your stove running. More shaking then your doing now is another way to say it.

Use a pencil or pen to adjust the magnetic thermometer reading.

Turn thermo needle backwards one full turn or more to get it close to laser thermometer readings. Repeat till it is close to laser thermometer reading. Other way if you went to far. It will stay accurate until magnet gets super hot again.

Shake your grates harder.

Nothing wrong with running stove cool when not needed. Then turn it up when needed. If you have stove that is alittle oversized for your house. It's your house and your preference. Just keep stove above 150° to speed up recovery time lag.

Sometimes it take years to learn how hard to shake grates.... cough,cough.

It seems a balancing act between shaking enough to get the ash out, and shaking too much. I've determined that it's best to do things in this order in the morning (assuming I have enough fire to make it happen): rev it, load it some, let it get good and hot (400+), shake it hard, let it sit a little so that it starts gaining heat again after the usual temp drop due to shaking, and then load it again. If I shake it as the first thing in the morning, despite there being zero glow, even if by shaking it I achieve glow, the fire will die down and sometimes go out. I'm thinking that what happens is that ash falls from higher strata of the burning areas of the pile, and clogs whatever breathing holes the pile still had.

I'm mostly trying to sift through all of the information I've gotten, and gain more, to put together what will work for me. My dealer told me to go really easy on the shaker - shake lightly in the morning and evening. Didn't work. Some people have advocated a glorified "set it and forget it" approach; doesn't work for my needs. There are gems to be found in all suggestions, but I have to put them together to make my own recipe for success. Some people on this forum appear to delight in the "set it and forget it" approach. Even my dealer was quoted in the paper, like 17 years ago when he opened the business, saying something like a coal stove is great because you only have to tend it for a total of five minutes or less per day. I don't mind doing more than that if it's what I have to do. But I would like to figure out how to keep it running without having to restart it every week or so. My all-time record for running it without a restart is two weeks, and I still had to use wood occasionally to encourage more draft, give it more heat, and strengthen a weakened coal fire. I haven't been doing that these days - wood has been for restarts only.

Anthracite does not like to be poked around like wood and shaking is another form of poking. If the fire is a little on the weak side shaking can put it out. That could be what happens with that issue.

But it sounds like the way your doing the loading is fine except the shaking.

I am just starting my journey with coal, and I thought I was doing good I started last Sunday, first few days were rough, then I had a 4 day stretch where I kept it going, and I was so excited, then this morning I just wanted to crawl back into bed, so I rushed the shaking and filling.... and well I paid for that by having to boost with a couple of splits of wood. I am slowly learning, and one of the biggest take aways I have is its slow, its not wood, forget the way you do wood, there is nothing fast about coal, it takes its time and repays you in not having to faff with it.
I get the temp swings you are looking for but I live in a 5th wheel so indoor temp is greatly effected by outdoor temps. So on that note the only input I would have is less insulation will help get the swings your looking for.....

warminmn wrote: ↑

Sun. Jan. 29, 2023 1:29 pm

Anthracite does not like to be poked around like wood and shaking is another form of poking. If the fire is a little on the weak side shaking can put it out. That could be what happens with that issue.

But it sounds like the way your doing the loading is fine except the shaking.

This is my problem, when I have to get into the back corners where it builds up, and I dig in there to lessen the ash I have to make sure the stove is going good, which is detrimental to my hands cause that is alot of heat, I am starting to be able to gauge when things will be ok with a poking, but I have to learn not to rush any part of it. I started keeping a log of what I do and when and conditions. And its helping.

Just to be clear, am I reading this right? You put a coal stove in a 5th wheel mobile home? That's fine, but could you share the details of your exhaust system/chimney setup? I'm guessing that you have a very variable draft going on that is hampering your success with coal. I also hope you have a couple carbon monoxide alarms in the camper where they will definitely wake you up in the event of an emergency.

Sorry if I missed it if you already posted those details.

OP…you have entirely missed the point of set it and forget it.

The point is to learn how the stove functions…it’s likes and dislikes…to change one variable at a time.

The way you are jockeying the temp of the stove, and therefore the house as well, is one variable. Do you under that?

By doing such means shaking hard for one tending and less for the second tending. That’s 3 variables now. If you shake your stove the same after you’ve turned it down you will likely kill it. Throw in outside temperature swings and now we’re above 4 variables trying to figure which one l caused what.

Just how do you suppose to determine what the cause of this ashing issue is if you’re changing more than one variable at a time?

Throw all of my advice out the window and pretend it doesn’t exist. You’ve been given excellent advice by many others, especially Oliver Power. You have followed none of it!

Your excuse has been you or your wife…many times you said there is no compromise on temperature for night and day, window stats, temperature of the stove, running it without messing with it, can’t waste coal, etc., etc., etc.

Sir, with all due respect…if you expect to find the cause of the issue and be successful you WILL compromise and learn to be consistent. If not, you’ll likely not figure out the issue. Once you figure it out, THEN you can modify methods to fit your needs. Crawl first, run second. Not the other way around.

We suggested running the stove at a consistent level and employ windows stats (in your 1st thread and in this thread) but you whined about wasting coal OR you whined about the house getting cold too fast. You never once considered leaving the stove alone and figuring out using the windowstats. No. You complained it got too cold too fast. Did you ever consider leaving the stove alone and learning how far to open a window? For how long? How many windows? Which windows? During varying weather conditions to see what happens. Did you bother to take any notes? Nope! Screw that I’m wasting coal.

Guess what…you just tied your own hands AND ours. You can’t tie our hands with excuses and then expect our help to help you.

Did you try to find a “middle ground” home temperature like I suggested many posts ago? No…you won’t do that either.

Well I’ll be…you just keep taking our options we give you and chucking them in the trash.

If you will set that stove to a room temperature somewhere in the middle for you and the wife and leave it alone…shake the same way twice a day…at the same exact time each day…every day…you might just figure out what the problem is or what you are doing wrong and what you need to do.

As long as you keep making exuses and doing more than one thing at a time, changing more than one thing at a time, then you are NOT going to have any success except by chance…by shear luck.

You and your wife’s likes and dislikes, as well as health problems, really don’t amount to a hill of beans with regard to running your stove. The basics are the basics regardless of all of that. Learn to run the stove consistently for a solid month or more and know for sure you can repeat it. Then and only then start jacking with everything else…one thing at a time.

First…consistency with the stove…and once again windowstats are your friend. No excuses. Learn how to use the windows…open too much, too little, too many open, not enough windows open, which windows work best, etc., etc. Remember…outside air temperature is yet another variable…an uncontrollable one…so learn to leave the stove at a consistent rate and learn those windows for each variation of the uncontrollable weather.

If you can’t learn to do one change at a time (regardless whether or not you employ the use of windows) I’m not sure anyone here can help you.

You simply cannot come here and ask for suggestions, cry allowed that you won’t compromise with any suggestion made (and you’ve already declared that several times) and then expect anyone to want to help you. You’re wasting people’s time. Either suck it up and do it, or don’t. It’s up to you.

Doing the same thing wrong, is just that, wrong, BUT at least it’s consistent. Try being consistent. At least if you’re consistently doing something wrong you know what that wrong thing is and can change. Being all over the map is just that…being all over the map…on a road that leads to nowhere.

Literally…every piece of information given by nearly every member is useful. The rest is up to you to sift through, to find out what works and what doesn’t. People here have bent over backwards trying to assist you…and you have declared you can’t and won’t compromise on most of it. That’s not on us, but on you. That’s as plain as I can say it.

This has zero to do with being angry or upset. No. It’s nothing personal. I’m just done wasting my time…and I’m done with you wasting my time.

I already said this once before , but I’m done here.

Rinderciller wrote: ↑

Sun. Jan. 29, 2023 1:49 pm

This is my problem, when I have to get into the back corners where it builds up, and I dig in there to lessen the ash I have to make sure the stove is going good, which is detrimental to my hands cause that is alot of heat, I am starting to be able to gauge when things will be ok with a poking, but I have to learn not to rush any part of it. I started keeping a log of what I do and when and conditions. And its helping.

Get a pair of welding gloves, or insulated leather at a minimum. i had a pair of even heavier leather gloves for a while so you can get whatever woks. This is the pair I use now for wood and coal. Saves a few burns. https://www.menards.com/main/tools/welders-access ... 5&exp=true

Fire keeps dying overnight. Consider changing your clocks.

Lightning wrote: ↑

Sun. Jan. 29, 2023 2:00 pm

Just to be clear, am I reading this right? You put a coal stove in a 5th wheel mobile home? That's fine, but could you share the details of your exhaust system/chimney setup? I'm guessing that you have a very variable draft going on that is hampering your success with coal. I also hope you have a couple carbon monoxide alarms in the camper where they will definitely wake you up in the event of an emergency.

Sorry if I missed it if you already posted those details.

Hi Lightning its over here and I am still working on it....
Thanks from a Lurker....