Thanks from a Lurker....

 
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Rinderciller
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Posts: 39
Joined: Tue. Jan. 24, 2023 5:15 pm
Location: Turtle Creek, New Brunswick, Canada
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Salamander
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Other Heating: Diesel, Propane, and a Mini Split

Post by Rinderciller » Tue. Jan. 24, 2023 7:28 pm

Hi Everyone I have been lurking here for a bit reading lots, getting ready for my run at coal in my Salamander. Its a tiny stove out of England for small spaces. I am in a 36 foot 5th wheel in a permeant spot, so sucky insulation, working on it, single pane windows, plastic over on the outside helps a ton at least I have no wet windows in the morning. Its skirted around. Double wall stainless flu on the outside aprox 10 feet , which needs to be adjusted in the next few weeks when parts arrive. I have been burning wood in the Salamander for 3 1/2 winters so far, and well the getting up every 2 hours at night was getting old. So I decided to give coal a try, I mean that is what the stove is intended for, but they have different coal than we do, as in England as it is a formed smokeless type. I talked to the manufacturer and they said there would be no issues with the pure coal. So I sourced my coal...that was a chore in this area, I got 10 bags, a mix of nut and stove as that is all he had, to give it a try. So Sunday afternoon I have a good wood fire burnt down so I start with the coal.... Easy peasy I got the blue ladies right away and it got going good. Now Sunday night, I give it a shake and it goes out...... grrr.. So I grab the roaster and empty all the coal out and relay a wood fire, its going and I add the coal back in.... It goes all right most the night but is lacking heat. I know the wood struggles with that in here to due to the lack of everything....I'll get that dialed in eventually. So Monday morning again I shake and out it goes....so back to relighting with wood, and away it goes. Monday late afternoon, same thing again. Every time I shake it goes out... So I grab a wire coat hanger and laying on the floor I work it into the ash pan and up through the grates, instead of shaking I poke from below... well that worked a bit better. And remember all through this I am on here reading everything I can find on people having problems keeping their stoves lit. What I learned was "It's not a wood fire stop poking it" , "It can be multiple things just start working out what it isn't " , "And don't be afraid to try something, everyone's set up is individual and what works for one may not work for the other." Hence the coat hanger and laying on the floor. Then I had a light bulb moment, every time I shake some ashes go in the ash pan, but a lot fly up and coat the coal, smothering it I presume...... With the wood fire if you open the ash door the stove sounds like a rocket stove it pulls so hard, so I presume the draft is good. So the shaking was pulling the ash up through. So today I open the ash pan door for 15 mins before shaking, then I shut it, and open the stove door a crack to cut the draft down, then shake..... Eureka I now have a glowing ash pan, lit from above, and it didn't go out on me today. Now to get the heat aspect dialed in, I know I have to redo my chimney and add a damper to help with the draw on the flue.
Now I just have to get the dial draft dialed in and see how long I can get it to hold. Shaking every , 6 to 8 hours as the stove is so small and to help keep the heat up. Once the chimney is changed and the damper is in it will be better I am sure. And tips and tricks for a small stove with a circular shaker grate?
I just want to thank everyone for all the help I took away from everything I read, if at first you don't succeed try, try, try again and sooner or later you will stumble on what works for you.

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warminmn
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Posts: 7143
Joined: Tue. Feb. 08, 2011 5:59 pm
Location: Land of 11,842 lakes
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Junior, Efel Nestor Martin, Riteway 37
Coal Size/Type: nut and stove anthracite, lignite
Other Heating: Wood and wear a wool shirt

Post by warminmn » Tue. Jan. 24, 2023 7:41 pm

If you can add a scoop of coal half an hour or so before you shake that will help from losing the fire also. It gets preheated and falls down on the coals when shaking, instead of putting cold coal on the coals, which sometimes causes problems. Your dogs look happy! Im assuming you have a couple carbon monoxide detectors but if not get them soon.

 
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Rinderciller
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Posts: 39
Joined: Tue. Jan. 24, 2023 5:15 pm
Location: Turtle Creek, New Brunswick, Canada
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Salamander
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Other Heating: Diesel, Propane, and a Mini Split

Post by Rinderciller » Tue. Jan. 24, 2023 7:49 pm

They are on the way. And that is a picture from earlier this winter, I am down to just the brindle girl now. And she likes her heat, and her blankets, she is always the little spoon when we go to bed.

 
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Rinderciller
Member
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue. Jan. 24, 2023 5:15 pm
Location: Turtle Creek, New Brunswick, Canada
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Salamander
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Other Heating: Diesel, Propane, and a Mini Split

Post by Rinderciller » Tue. Jan. 24, 2023 7:51 pm

lol...scoop of coal... I am putting it in there with tongs. That way I can get it deep in the back angling down to the door. Plus the fire box is small. It only takes an 8 inch stick of wood.

 
Holdencoal
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Post by Holdencoal » Tue. Jan. 24, 2023 8:09 pm

Do you have the coal grate for the front and are you opening the ash door and letting the fire ramp up prior to shaking down?

 
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Rinderciller
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Posts: 39
Joined: Tue. Jan. 24, 2023 5:15 pm
Location: Turtle Creek, New Brunswick, Canada
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Salamander
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Other Heating: Diesel, Propane, and a Mini Split

Post by Rinderciller » Tue. Jan. 24, 2023 8:18 pm

Yes there is the orginal grate in front of the door, and I am ordering the new taller one. And yes I am opening the ash door for at least 20 mins before shaking. I think I have the shaking mostly figured for now, long as it is hot, and I shut the ash pan door and open the stove door. Fingers crossed I have had good luck with her today.

 
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ShawnLiNy
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Joined: Fri. Nov. 30, 2018 12:28 am
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Waterford
Coal Size/Type: Nut

Post by ShawnLiNy » Tue. Jan. 24, 2023 8:26 pm

I think you are gunna be very happy with coal in that space ( I’ve done it in a fifth wheel with a little 10” diameter livestock coal heater not fun under 20* and it’s hell if there’s wind ) I needed to hang moving blankets to partition the step up ( research if they recommend a baro for coal ) you can put put a pot of coarse sand on the stove to add thermal mass for gusts and such


 
Hoytman
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Posts: 4993
Joined: Wed. Jan. 18, 2017 11:30 pm
Location: swOH near a little town where the homes are mobile and the cars aren’t
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 354
Coal Size/Type: nut coal
Other Heating: electric, wood, oil

Post by Hoytman » Tue. Jan. 24, 2023 9:26 pm

Answer all of these so the gang here can better help you. The more specific you are the more specific their answers will be to help you.

Current chimney…
- What size (inside diameter) double wall pipe do you have?

- Is it Class A double wall chimney pipe or double wall stove pipe? There is a difference and outside you want Class A chimney pipe (it’s insulated and double wall also). Inside you use either single or double wall stove pipe. Stove pipe inside…outside is chimney pipe, class A sized correctly for your stove.

- What is total chimney height (measured from firebox floor to top of chimney)?

-How far off the floor of the “home” is the stove?
Often times stoves in this situation are elevated to countertop height.

- Is this also the case with yours?
It’s better to have the stove close to the floor because heat rises.

Fans can help circulate heat (fan on low blowing cold air towards the stove from furthest point of the home). This creates a circulating loop. Cold air naturally wants to lay on the floor and hot air wants to be up high. Easier to push cold air than air that wants to immediately rise because it is hotter and less dense than cold air. This is why stove top fans typically don’t work as well as a small fan placed far away from the stove, on the floor, on low, and left to run for hours…it takes time circulating to warm objects in the home. Longer the floor fan runs the better. Fan gets placed far from stove blowing towards stove. Many here use fans this way…trust that knowledge from so many here…it works far better this way.

- Is stove pipe single it double wall stove pipe?

- What are your plans for the new chimney? What are you changing?


Make sure to get 2 CO detectors, one for back up in case one quits. Make sure one is a digital readout.

On windows…inside…some reflective bubble wrap can go a long way towards not just making the place warmer, but making it actually warm inside. You can roll them up during the day.

Your chimney is the engine that drives the entire system. The system is the home/stove/chimney…with the chimney being the most important part.

Your chimney would function much better if the entire chimney was inside the home, rather than being outside. Straight up off the stove and through the roof is best.

Be very careful about letting your outside chimney draft too low…especially being an outside chimney of metal. You don’t want a reversal of your chimney…especially with coal.

Make sure you keep a thermometer on the stove and one on your pipe.

A Manometer is handy to know exactly how your chimney is drafting, rather than guessing. (<$50 for a Dwyer Mark II model 25). It will also help you conserve fuel as well by knowing your draft.

- Apparently you currently do not have a pipe damper?

With this type install it is very important to match stove outlet, stove pipe, and chimney pipe…all the same size for most optimum draft…and height should meet, or better yet, exceed the minimum height mentioned in your stove manufacturer’s manual.

Be sure and answer these questions so the gang here can help you. I’m all out of comments and suggestions.

Carry on…good luck, be safe, and stay warm.

 
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warminmn
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Posts: 7143
Joined: Tue. Feb. 08, 2011 5:59 pm
Location: Land of 11,842 lakes
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Junior, Efel Nestor Martin, Riteway 37
Coal Size/Type: nut and stove anthracite, lignite
Other Heating: Wood and wear a wool shirt

Post by warminmn » Tue. Jan. 24, 2023 9:57 pm

Rinderciller wrote:
Tue. Jan. 24, 2023 7:51 pm
lol...scoop of coal... I am putting it in there with tongs. That way I can get it deep in the back angling down to the door. Plus the fire box is small. It only takes an 8 inch stick of wood.
Maybe I should have said an ice cream scoop, lol They have this style of scoop in many sizes. Im including a link but that doesnt mean to buy it from that seller as I didnt price check. Search for aluminum scoop on ebay to see other sizes but I picked out a small 5 ounce one. I use an 84 ounce i think. https://www.ebay.com/itm/361738063684

 
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Rinderciller
Member
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue. Jan. 24, 2023 5:15 pm
Location: Turtle Creek, New Brunswick, Canada
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Salamander
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Other Heating: Diesel, Propane, and a Mini Split

Post by Rinderciller » Tue. Jan. 24, 2023 10:05 pm

Ok I am going to try to get all these answered
1. Chimney is a 4 inch inside diameter, double walled, insulated, stainless steel selkirk
2. Height from the bottom of the fire box to top of the chimney is (now your making me do math....lol) 10 feet give or take a couple inches
3. Its on the floor, just on a slab of stone.
4. I have a fan running all day, a turbo one that sits on the floor and points at the ceiling to circulate the air in the main living area, I prefer it warmer out in the living room area (18 or 64) and prefer the heat stays out there and leaves the bed room cool.... (14 or57) It got up to 22 or 71 in here this morning and I thought I was going to die, opened the door wide open it was -5 or 23 out there and I need to cool it off in here. Poor dog thought I was nuts. Menopause will be fun I'll be running the air conditioner in January.
5. The outside part of the chimney will be remaining the same, maybe taller if needed. But inside I am changing where it exits the wall and having it come up out of the back of the stove, with a vertical run which will house the damper and then elbow into the part that exits through the wall. (Good job I am not fancy and have no issues cutting another hole in the wall....Lol....It will all be covered up anyway)

I did the bubble wrap last year and always still had water all over the window and the frames. So this year I basically made hillbilly storm windows for the outside and they are doing much better, no moisture standing on the glass at all in the mornings and no water dripping off the frames, so I find that works best for me.

I will grab some pictures and doodles in the daylight and show you what I have going on right now and what it will be changed to when the parts come in.

 
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Rinderciller
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Posts: 39
Joined: Tue. Jan. 24, 2023 5:15 pm
Location: Turtle Creek, New Brunswick, Canada
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Salamander
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Other Heating: Diesel, Propane, and a Mini Split

Post by Rinderciller » Tue. Jan. 24, 2023 10:09 pm

I try to put it in with my little shovel, but if I continue to that I will have to shave my left arm so it matches my right.....

 
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Rinderciller
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Posts: 39
Joined: Tue. Jan. 24, 2023 5:15 pm
Location: Turtle Creek, New Brunswick, Canada
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Salamander
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Other Heating: Diesel, Propane, and a Mini Split

Post by Rinderciller » Wed. Jan. 25, 2023 11:31 am

Ok lets see if the brain is functioning this morning to upload pictures.... fingers crossed. Ok the red back ground is the old set up but just to show where the drafts on the stove are located. The picture with Zora in the foreground is doodled with to show what I am going to do. The others show the exterior chimney, and the space and fan location. Excuse the mess.... :roll:

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Hoytman
Member
Posts: 4993
Joined: Wed. Jan. 18, 2017 11:30 pm
Location: swOH near a little town where the homes are mobile and the cars aren’t
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 354
Coal Size/Type: nut coal
Other Heating: electric, wood, oil

Post by Hoytman » Wed. Jan. 25, 2023 12:32 pm

I’d love to have a little stove like that. I’ve got a little work shop that could greatly benefit from it.

 
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warminmn
Member
Posts: 7143
Joined: Tue. Feb. 08, 2011 5:59 pm
Location: Land of 11,842 lakes
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Junior, Efel Nestor Martin, Riteway 37
Coal Size/Type: nut and stove anthracite, lignite
Other Heating: Wood and wear a wool shirt

Post by warminmn » Wed. Jan. 25, 2023 12:50 pm

I would want a support under the chimney. Besides factory made ones( thats if your worried about code) you could support the pipe going out before it gets to your clean out on the tee. Something that wont sink into the ground would work but keep an eye on it over time.

You seem to have flammables to close to the stove but perhaps I am wrong as i dont know whats recommended for your stove. Any type of heat shield cuts the recommended distance in half, approximately. Steel, cement board, etc.

Damper, some like it real close to the stove, some want it out of childs reach. Kind of up to you and opinions really vary on that.

I used a heavy piece of steel, I think it was 3/4" thick, to raise my firebox height by my glass in my first coal stove and it worked great. You want a space between the glass and the steel or it will damage your glass.

Be careful not to over fire that small stove on a cold day as you will hurt the stove. I imagine parts are quite expensive. Very cute stove, I like it.

 
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Rinderciller
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Posts: 39
Joined: Tue. Jan. 24, 2023 5:15 pm
Location: Turtle Creek, New Brunswick, Canada
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Salamander
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Other Heating: Diesel, Propane, and a Mini Split

Post by Rinderciller » Wed. Jan. 25, 2023 12:53 pm

She seems to be working ok. I'm sure it will improve with the chimney improvements. But I have to remember to do a hard clean an hour or so before bed. Did a shake at 4 this morning and gave it 30 mins to come back up to temp and put a small amount of coal on 10 pieces of stove of various size. Than gave it another 30 mins to get lit good before shutting the ash door. Then at 10 I had a hard time getting it to liven up there was still a nice glow underneath but it wouldn't get up and running again, so I went in with the poker and drug all the ash out of the corners and got it all cleaned out underneath. Then I did something I know is frowned on I put a split on top to get it up and running again, and she took right off and I was able to toss some coal in in about a half hour. It seems to maintain day time temp in here at a steady 19 which is fine with me, although if the sun is shining it is higher..... Night stays around 16 which isn't bad.


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