Hi-Flame in USA? More options in England?

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Burner
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Post by Burner » Fri. Sep. 10, 2021 2:46 am

So I was browsing the forums looking for a good coal stove that will fit in our (900 sqft) cabin. I found a mention of hiflame, (a multifuel stove) that comes with some boiler options. https://www.hi-flame.com/home We would love to heat hot water as well as cook, and they are small enough to safely fit in our space. I started searching for small multifuel stoves and found a whole slew of really cool options, but they all seem to be in the UK with no retailers in the US. For example... https://www.machinemart.co.uk/c/cast-iron-wood-bu ... -stoves-2/

Our fireplace is masonry with a small hearth, so it's probably better suited for an insert, like a Hitzer 983, But we really like to cook on our stoves, and can't seem to find anything small enough to suit our needs. (I can upload photos of our fireplace and dimensions if necessary) There are plenty of small wood only options, but our cabin is built into the side of a cliff, and there is no way to drive up the hill, so wood needs to be hauled up the hill ¼ of a face at a time on a winch cart. Coal would be much easier to haul up the hill, and we have a bulk coal dealer who delivers 4 miles down the road from us.

Does anyone know of any wood/coal/multifuel stoves similar to hiflame that are available in the US?

 
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Post by Hoytman » Fri. Sep. 10, 2021 7:02 am

No...they are not US EPA certified any longer.

That said, while at the moment I can’t think of the names but if you give me a little while I could give you names of several stoves made in the US and England that are similar. Keep in mind that these stoves “across the pond” are made for a factory made coal briquettes...which are not like our anthracite coal here. Maybe others could be more specific about it, but I have never person seen it or used it, but I’ve seen it on the internet and it doesn’t look like the anthracite here but like the wood charcoal we have here, so I doubt it would burn the same as anthracite. Maybe it will. That I cannot say.

The Morso Squirrel is one stove that is offered here in the US that will burn both fuels but you have to modify the stove. There are several others if you keep looking whose names escape me at the moment. The Morso is likely as good or better than any of the rest anyhow. One of the air controls has a tab that is welded so that it cannot be used. This can be easily modified by the home owner making it the same stove available over the pond. At least that is what my several years of researching these same small stoves found to be true.

The Morso is a cast iron stove and some of the others are made of plate steel, but real thick plate steel. I would have no trouble trusting either. One in particular I am thinking of but don’t recall the name at the moment. Both that I am thinking of including the Morso have a round shaker grate and both are great for tiny spaces.

By the way, there is a vast size difference between these stoves, the ahi-Flame, and the Hitzer 983. That Hitzer is the biggest they make and can easily heat 3000+ square feet. It is a beast! The only Hitzer that might work...that has the largest top to cook if of...is the Hitzer 55...a very nice little heater that can also perform for much larger space if needed.

It would help us to see pictures of your stove space as well as get an idea how well this cabin is insulated, how it is built, how many windows, whether the stove will fit in the center of the cabin, one large room or many smaller rooms.

I can tell you that of the Hitzer stoves you want a radiant model...not blower models. The blower models have an double back and top and these surfaces run far too cool and the stoves are far too big to run a blower model stove in your space. You would have to run them far too hot for your space to have enough heat to cook off of. Even the 55 may produce too much heat for the home while being hot enough to cook off of. Better to call Hitzer and talk to Dean.

If any Hitzer’s would work it would be these models:
1. Radiant 30-95
2. 55
3. Radiant model 254
I still think these are all too big, but maybe one would work. For burning wood in them the 55, and 254 are your best options. Still the 55 has the biggest top yet no glass in the window. The largest benefit to these stoves are the thermostats that maintain the temperature for you. You just set them to desired temperature and they basically run themselves.

If one of these would work it would be better as with the Hi-Flame and Morso Squirrel with their small fire boxes you will constantly be loading fuel.

Hold on I just thought of another stove for you...similar to a Hitzer with a thermostat but is offered in even smaller models as well. Give me a minute...

 
Hoytman
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Post by Hoytman » Fri. Sep. 10, 2021 7:25 am

These are not built quite as heavy as the Hitzer but they may not need to be for your needs.

https://coalohio.com/coal-ez
https://coalohio.com/ashland-stoves

If you do a search for these stoves in this forum you will likely run across several pictures of these stoves that I posted. They don’t seem to get much praise here, but I think they are just fine for what they are. Seems like I thought they had a unit for around 1000 square feet but I didn’t see it in that link.

None of those above or the Hitzer’s will be listed today as burning wood. They also cannot call them duel fuel stoves any longer. However, the stoves are still made the same way and quite capable of burning wood.

 
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Richard S.
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Post by Richard S. » Fri. Sep. 10, 2021 7:51 am

A lot of the stoves formerly labeled dual fuel are only marketed as coal stoves now because of EPA regs. However they are the same product. One thing to be aware of, make sure it's from company that makes coal stoves. Many of the products formerly labeled dual fuel do not work very well for coal if they manufactured by a wood stove company.

 
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Post by Burner » Fri. Sep. 10, 2021 9:47 am

As requested, I took some pictures to show the space/dimensions/fireplace. Again this place is about 900sqft, maybe a little less 850ish. I really love that morso squirrel! Just not sure if it will work to heat this place. I also like the morso 3142 & 7110. Im not seeing anything that says the 3142 or 7110 are multifuel though, unless I'm missing something. They do have shaker grates. I just don't understand why there are not more US companies making these small multifuel stoves. I would think with all of these tiny homes that people are building, there is a market for it. Just look at the cubic mini for example. No one wants to stay up all night feeding their cubic mini to keep their camper or tiny home warm through the night, but people still buy them.

This is the fireplace, I drew in some dimensions. This is the east side of the house.
Image

This is the view from mantle (left) looking toward the south west corner of house. The west wall is about 20ft away from the east wall and has 4 windows. The south wall also has 4 windows. Single pane. I plan on throwing some plexi glass outside over top of them.
Image

This shot is the north wall showing the kitchen. The small kitchen window is the only window on the north wall. To the left of the kitchen on the west wall (not pictured) that is the soon to be bathroom. It also has dual swing open single pane windows that leak like hell. I may be getting a new casement for that window, but hate to get rid of the old look. May just weather strip them this year.
Image


Here are some more detailed dimensions of the firebox.
Image

Above all of these rooms is a basic attic that we do plan on converting into a bedroom eventually. As for insulation, we have none installed, the person before me just had r19 up in the rafters with no vapor barrier which created mold, so i had to rip it all down. I was supposed to get spray foam done, but the company that said they were going to do it and had planned to do it is now telling me they might not get to it... so that's kind of a crisis right now. lol So this place is currently completely uninsulated. If I cant get this place insulated before this winter, then I will most likely stay with family this winter and just come up here to work on the house from time to time.



Hoytman wrote:
Fri. Sep. 10, 2021 7:25 am
These are not built quite as heavy as the Hitzer but they may not need to be for your needs.

https://coalohio.com/coal-ez
https://coalohio.com/ashland-stoves

If you do a search for these stoves in this forum you will likely run across several pictures of these stoves that I posted. They don’t seem to get much praise here, but I think they are just fine for what they are. Seems like I thought they had a unit for around 1000 square feet but I didn’t see it in that link.

None of those above or the Hitzer’s will be listed today as burning wood. They also cannot call them duel fuel stoves any longer. However, the stoves are still made the same way and quite capable of burning wood.
I was not aware of that issue with the coal being different than the anthracite over in uk england. Bummer, I just wish they had a small stove coal that could burn all night that would fit in my fireplace. Looking at these coal ohio stoves looks like none of them would fit safely. My main concern being the height of the mantle, and length of the hearth before it touches the wood floor. I could always extend out the hearth though.
Richard S. wrote:
Fri. Sep. 10, 2021 7:51 am
A lot of the stoves formerly labeled dual fuel are only marketed as coal stoves now because of EPA regs. However they are the same product. One thing to be aware of, make sure it's from company that makes coal stoves. Many of the products formerly labeled dual fuel do not work very well for coal if they manufactured by a wood stove company.
Thank you for the heads up! Guess ill only be searching/keywording for coal stoves then if that's what I'm in the market for. But its looking grim, looks like i might just be stuck with a wood insert or small wood stove I can shove into the firebox and still cook on.
Last edited by Burner on Fri. Sep. 10, 2021 10:50 am, edited 4 times in total.


 
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Richard S.
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Post by Richard S. » Fri. Sep. 10, 2021 10:28 am

As it is with most products those that try and be Swiss army knives usually fail to do anything well...unless it's a Swiss army knife. Realistically any hand fed coal stove should burn wood but it's not going to do it as efficiently as a wood stove, even those designed to try and accommodate wood.

Anything designed to burn wood well is not going to burn coal though. Generally you can burn wood in coal stove but you can't burn coal in a wood stove.

Point is if you want dual fuel and want to use coal as the primary fuel it's not unreasonable but make sure it's designed for coal first and foremost. If you are going to burn wood as your primary fuel forget the coal and just get a wood stove.

While on the topic one of the recommendations you may see here is the use of barometric damper for coal, even for a hand fed. Do not install one of these if you are going to burn wood.

 
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Post by lzaharis » Fri. Sep. 10, 2021 10:37 am

Hello and Good afternoon Burner,

Another option for you might be the Ashley coal circulators sold on this side of the pond $1,699.00 USD from home depot/home despot as I like to call them.

It has a cook top and room for the kettle and it burns wood as well. The unit has shaker grates and is firebrick lined and has an ash drawer.

 
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Post by Richard S. » Fri. Sep. 10, 2021 10:39 am

Perhaps this may be option since you are looking to cook on it.

Burning Wood in the Chubby

https://chubbystove.com/


Another option but complete overkill for 900 sq. ft. and is going to be quite pricey for the full boat:

https://legacystoves.com/product/sf250/

Check down the bottom. There is an oven, griddle and water vessel available for it.

 
Hoytman
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Post by Hoytman » Fri. Sep. 10, 2021 10:48 am

That wood stove looks like an old Garrison.

I think a Hitzer 254 would be and look perfect for that spot. A radiant model with a heat shield on the back. Dean could have them put a heat shield on the back to reduce clearances, and you could also add your own heatshield in addition to that or a stand alone shield behind the stove. You would have a glass door to look through as well. It will give the option for wood or coal, but is a hand fed stove. Doesn't much matter with wood because you'd be hand feeding it anyway.

This stove can be custom built with rear exhaust rather than top exhaust, I think. Call Dean!!
https://hitzer.com/our-products/stoves-furnaces/model-254

If you thought you would burn more coal than wood, then the Hitzer 30-95 hopper fed stove might work for you as well.
Some here have burned wood in hopper stoves, not sure which hopper stove, by taking out the hopper.
https://hitzer.com/our-products/stoves-furnaces/model-30-95

Here is the 55 I told you about. Has a nice cook top, burns both wood and coal. This little gem is a serious heater although not much to look at.
https://hitzer.com/our-products/stoves-furnaces/m ... 5-ul-stove
Nice little feature...
https://hitzer.com/our-products/stoves-furnaces/m ... #gallery-2
If look are not important, but heat is, the little 55 is the little stove that could. It is nice for what it is. Idles low, but capable of clothes stripping heat.

I highly recommend sending all your information to Dean at Hitzer, pictures, and drawings, and then call him and discuss it with him. Tell him your wants and needs. They seem like good honest people. I know he will tell you if one of their stoves will work for you or not. They are built very well.
Last edited by Hoytman on Fri. Sep. 10, 2021 11:15 am, edited 3 times in total.

 
Hoytman
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Post by Hoytman » Fri. Sep. 10, 2021 10:51 am

Richard S. wrote:
Fri. Sep. 10, 2021 10:39 am
Perhaps this may be option since you are looking to cook on it.

Burning Wood in the Chubby

https://chubbystove.com/


Another option but complete overkill for 900 sq. ft. and is going to be quite pricey for the full boat:

https://legacystoves.com/product/sf250/

Check down the bottom. There is an oven, griddle and water vessel available for it.
Great post and great options that I forgot about.
Those Hitzers are likely overkill as well if you plan on doing much cooking. You can always open windows though with any of the stoves you buy.

That Chubby suggestion is a great one. Nice little stove. Not quite the large cook surface, but I hear they are great little heaters. I'd like to have one of those and a Legacy. Then again, I have stove issues. :lol:

https://legacystoves.com/product/mark-i/
https://legacystoves.com/product/mark-ii/
https://legacystoves.com/product/mark-iii/
https://legacystoves.com/product/tlc-2000/

I would caution you about getting a stove that's too big though. Especially for any serious wood burning. A small to mid-sized stove would likely be best.

I will add that a big stove is not impossible though. My home is 1300sq ft and I am using this stove for coal ...
https://hitzer.com/our-products/stoves-furnaces/model-354
This stove will heat up to around 3000 sq ft., so it's possible to use it, but a mid-sized stove would be best for me...like the 254.
It barely runs. I mean it throws a tremendous amount of heat if I ask it to. It usually idles about 300-325 in coldest of winter for us. It is a blower model that I never use. It also hinders the top from getting hot enough to cook on because air naturally convects through and underneath the top. My top stays around 165F. That is why I recommended a radiant stove for you because you want to cook on it.

You're doing well by getting input from users here, but call the manufacturers as well and go from there once you've gathered information. You'll be making an informed choice then and be well on your way. :yes:

When you choose don't forget to update this thread and show us what you ended up with. Then you could start a dedicated thread and stove initial stove review that can be updated later.


 
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Post by charlesosborne2002 » Fri. Sep. 10, 2021 1:52 pm

Burner wrote:
Fri. Sep. 10, 2021 2:46 am
So I was browsing the forums looking for a good coal stove that will fit in our (900 sqft) cabin. I found a mention of hiflame, (a multifuel stove) that comes with some boiler options. https://www.hi-flame.com/home We would love to heat hot water as well as cook, and they are small enough to safely fit in our space. I started searching for small multifuel stoves and found a whole slew of really cool options, but they all seem to be in the UK with no retailers in the US. For example... https://www.machinemart.co.uk/c/cast-iron-wood-bu ... -stoves-2/

Our fireplace is masonry with a small hearth, so it's probably better suited for an insert, like a Hitzer 983, But we really like to cook on our stoves, and can't seem to find anything small enough to suit our needs. (I can upload photos of our fireplace and dimensions if necessary) There are plenty of small wood only options, but our cabin is built into the side of a cliff, and there is no way to drive up the hill, so wood needs to be hauled up the hill ¼ of a face at a time on a winch cart. Coal would be much easier to haul up the hill, and we have a bulk coal dealer who delivers 4 miles down the road from us.

Does anyone know of any wood/coal/multifuel stoves similar to hiflame that are available in the US?
Most stoves are rated for how much heat they can produce (maximum) and little is said about how low and slow they will burn. According to my own shopping I believe that the lowest or slowest burning stoves use rice coal with an electric blower and feeder, such as the Hitzer 608 (as low as 7000 BTUs). I saw a model that can burn 5000 BTUs recently (a new model), but I don't remember the name now (a familiar brand). Such stoves tend to have coal hopper above the fire (or heat baffles to redirect heat through sides and bottom) for self feed and side shields for convection heat, which may not get hot enough on top for most cooking.
Many people here have mastered the low-slow burn with coal on a variety of stoves, but I have not perfected this, even with advice.
Most coal stoves (starting with small ones) heat 1000/2000 sq feet, partly just because keeping anthracite burning requires a deep bed of coal--which can only slow down so far before dying. My home is 950 sq ft and I use the Vermont Castings Vigilant 2, rated for 2000 sq ft. It has a great cooktop griddle and I love to cook pots on it. It is not EPA rated for wood, but makes a fine open fireplace with wood.
Perhaps for wood and coal you should consider the traditional rebuilt classics like Glenwood, which have a cook plate.
Another option for a smaller space would be a coal/wood kitchen range. These often have water heaters and usually they are not meant to heat a whole large house. I assume a water heater will tame some of the stove's heat output. There are many models these days.
Harmon TLC1000 was made for efficient EPA wood burning or coal, with cooktop; so was the DC Comfort Max 75, but both fall just short of today's EPA wood standards. But EPA only controls manufacture; people can use old models just as they can use old cars that are not efficient.
Note: in the USA, some cities may prohibit wood burning altogether.

 
charlesosborne2002
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Post by charlesosborne2002 » Fri. Sep. 10, 2021 2:11 pm

Burner wrote:
Fri. Sep. 10, 2021 9:47 am
As requested, I took some pictures to show the space/dimensions/fireplace. Again this place is about 900sqft, maybe a little less 850ish. I really love that morso squirrel! Just not sure if it will work to heat this place. I also like the morso 3142 & 7110. Im not seeing anything that says the 3142 or 7110 are multifuel though, unless I'm missing something. They do have shaker grates. I just don't understand why there are not more US companies making these small multifuel stoves. I would think with all of these tiny homes that people are building, there is a market for it. Just look at the cubic mini for example. No one wants to stay up all night feeding their cubic mini to keep their camper or tiny home warm through the night, but people still buy them.

This is the fireplace, I drew in some dimensions. This is the east side of the house.
Image

This is the view from mantle (left) looking toward the south west corner of house. The west wall is about 20ft away from the east wall and has 4 windows. The south wall also has 4 windows. Single pane. I plan on throwing some plexi glass outside over top of them.
Image

This shot is the north wall showing the kitchen. The small kitchen window is the only window on the north wall. To the left of the kitchen on the west wall (not pictured) that is the soon to be bathroom. It also has dual swing open single pane windows that leak like hell. I may be getting a new casement for that window, but hate to get rid of the old look. May just weather strip them this year.
Image


Here are some more detailed dimensions of the firebox.
Image

Above all of these rooms is a basic attic that we do plan on converting into a bedroom eventually. As for insulation, we have none installed, the person before me just had r19 up in the rafters with no vapor barrier which created mold, so i had to rip it all down. I was supposed to get spray foam done, but the company that said they were going to do it and had planned to do it is now telling me they might not get to it... so that's kind of a crisis right now. lol So this place is currently completely uninsulated. If I cant get this place insulated before this winter, then I will most likely stay with family this winter and just come up here to work on the house from time to time.






I was not aware of that issue with the coal being different than the anthracite over in uk england. Bummer, I just wish they had a small stove coal that could burn all night that would fit in my fireplace. Looking at these coal ohio stoves looks like none of them would fit safely. My main concern being the height of the mantle, and length of the hearth before it touches the wood floor. I could always extend out the hearth though.



Thank you for the heads up! Guess ill only be searching/keywording for coal stoves then if that's what I'm in the market for. But its looking grim, looks like i might just be stuck with a wood insert or small wood stove I can shove into the firebox and still cook on.
I would definitely put the stove out into the room, whatever distance is required for the stove (use a rear heat shield if available for the stove, or make one--a simple hearth pad may be used, so you can cook on it too. That will put the heat into the room. If the mantle is an issue, you can hang a sheet of steel (painted) from it with spacer to protect it. Double wall stovepipe can be 8" from flammables if you do not put it through the fireplace. (Some models have a flue lower to the floor; some are higher, or on top.) If your insulation is weak, like mine, the stoves in the 1000-2000 sq ft range should be fine, especially when you finish the attic. I put transoms over the doors to let heat drift to the back rooms, which are cooler, but not cold.

 
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Post by McGiever » Fri. Sep. 10, 2021 9:13 pm

Never going to cook on a stove with 2 layers for a air jacket.

 
Hoytman
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Post by Hoytman » Fri. Sep. 10, 2021 9:26 pm

McGiever wrote:
Fri. Sep. 10, 2021 9:13 pm
Never going to cook on a stove with 2 layers for a air jacket.
I agree with this post. I have this trouble now.

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