Vermont Castings griddle

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charlesosborne2002
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Post by charlesosborne2002 » Sat. Jul. 14, 2018 9:13 pm

I have ordered a new old stock Vigilant II, and I see the griddle on top (which covers the top loading opening) was also on other Vermont Castings stoves. The Canadian manual (a bit different from USA for same stoves) even gives an idea of stove-top temperatures for various cooking methods such as Dutch ovens, skillets, etc.

1. Anybody have experience cooking on these? It seems likely to me that cooking would splatter grease and juices onto the stove top around the griddle. And since the griddle covers the firebox, how can you take it off to clean it when the fire is hot?

I can see a Dutch oven or roaster, especially in case of power outage, etc. But any griddle, even if not used for cooking, might occasionally need to be cleaned and seasoned, yes?

It seems possible also, with the front doors open and hot coals, to broil right in front of the fire if you had an appropriate setup. Maybe an iron hibachi (without charcoal in it), set in front of the open stove on a suitable stand or blocks? Again, it only makes sense if the regular kitchen stove is inoperable...

2. The Vigilant might be hard to control with the doors open (overfire), yet the manual says it can be used as an open fireplace. (The USA manual, complying with EPA, does not approve of that, for the same stoves.) Even so, the manual suggests (in that case) using a smaller (wood) fire. When I look at the baffles and chambers for the gases before venting, I believe that the Vigilant design met EPA standards for efficient wood burning some years ago, but they can approve it only for coal by today's standards. The Canadian manual suggests burning wood every day for a couple weeks (modest fire) when the stove is new, to condition it to heating and cooling down. This sounds good because in the fall and spring we often have a few cold nights, but not enough to fire up the coal yet. Wood would be suitable for that, especially as it is EPA efficient by previous standards.

The Vigilant is set for bituminous coal on purchase--a plate covers half the possible air entry; I will remove it for anthracite, as it wants more air (as instructed). However, I wonder if burning wood would be better with the smaller air entry under the fire. There is over-the-fire air from the air-wash that keeps the glass clear (and for the reburn chamber). Using it as an open fireplace would contravene the reburn benefits for efficiency (and clean air). Any experience with wood in the VC coal stoves?


 
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Post by franco b » Sun. Jul. 15, 2018 3:12 pm

Cooking directly on the griddle would be messy and too hard to control temperature. Use a pan on the griddle.

The Vig ll is a poor wood burner compared to better designs for wood. Leave that plate for soft coal off. Crack the door for wood burning. There is no reburn chamber. The Vig ll derives its efficiency from circulating hot exhaust gasses around the combustion chamber, resulting in higher chamber temperatures and a more efficient burn as well as more efficient heat exchange, when in indirect mode.

 
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VigIIPeaBurner
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Post by VigIIPeaBurner » Sun. Jul. 15, 2018 11:08 pm

Franko i right on the mark about the Vigilant II. I did fry eggs directly on my old Defiant and wouldn't recommend doing that unless the stove is in a cabin you not worrying about splattering up.

I make roast, stews, and sauces in the appropriate pot. The high walls of the pot minimize splatter when browning meat. I don't try to alter the heat level but use various trivets and stove top position to manage the heat of the pot.

 
charlesosborne2002
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Post by charlesosborne2002 » Thu. Jul. 19, 2018 3:18 pm

You say the Vigilant II has no reburn chamber? The design is still cross-vented (cross draft fire), with air entering on the left and exiting on the right of the "magazine" (firebox). There a chamber mixes hot oxygen to the gasses and burns off any that are not already burned--though this was more critical when it was rated for wood. It still burns wood--at least when starting a coal fire.
The new manual says to open the internal baffle when starting a fire (wood) and when reloading (coal)--this allows updraft fires, with the gases going right up the flue instead of the side and back passages. This gets a good draft going before loading up the coal. The secondary air control plate (part 1300671) fits all Vigilant stoves, including II. This supports secondary burn. Of course, a hot coal fire ought to ignite its own fumes in the firebox, yes?

Some of this is not discussed in the manual as EPA requires it only be sold for coal, but it met the EPA requirements for wood before OBama--in traditional terms, very efficient and very low pollution with wood. I have bought this because I want to burn coal rather than wood, but it ought to be pretty good for wood, even if not rated for the latest standards. The manual even suggests putting some wood on the coals if it seems the draft is not going strong enough (loaded too much too fast). (The standards are for manufacturers, not users.)

Sounds like I ought to stick to the cast iron Dutch oven or roaster for this. I do have trivets for slow-cook possibilities.

 
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Post by VigIIPeaBurner » Fri. Jul. 20, 2018 10:55 pm

CO-'02 your first 2 paragraphs would be accurate for the older versions of the convertible wood/coal stove. When VC redesigned the firebox with firebrick and to shaker grates, the routing of the gasses changed and rendered the secondary air inlet useless when burning anthracite (or wood). The spaces surrounding the firebox and the stove's exterior walls allow for one of the wood burner's original purposes, a heat exchanger.

I do occasionally use mine for a fireplace with the doors open. I one was to burn wood in it, it can be hard to keep from overfireing if the combustion air restrictor plate has been removed.

 
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Post by charlesosborne2002 » Sat. Jul. 21, 2018 11:19 pm

VigII, does the air restricter plate (is this the anthracite conversion plate?) matter if the doors are wide open (fireplace)? Intuition says if the back air intake is closed and the damper closed to updraft, the conversion plate would not matter?

When you do use it as fireplace, what would lead to overfire and how do you prevent it? (Close updraft damper and limit amount of wood?)

What sized logs can you use--what is the maximum length and thickness that fit the top load?

 
charlesosborne2002
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Post by charlesosborne2002 » Mon. Jul. 23, 2018 10:01 pm

VigII, I see you were right and I was wrong about the secondary air. In that case, I wonder why they call the air inlet "primary"? If there is no secondary, there is no primary...


 
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Post by franco b » Mon. Jul. 23, 2018 10:20 pm

charlesosborne2002 wrote:
Mon. Jul. 23, 2018 10:01 pm
VigII, I see you were right and I was wrong about the secondary air. In that case, I wonder why they call the air inlet "primary"? If there is no secondary, there is no primary...


They call it primary because air entering a coal stove below the grate is primary air. There is a bit of secondary air that enters through the bottom of the glass in the doors. The terms differ depending on where the air enters.

 
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Post by VigIIPeaBurner » Thu. Nov. 01, 2018 9:39 am

@charlesosborne2002:
Sorry I missed your two questions. It was a crazy summer for us.
charlesosborne2002 » Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:19 pm

VigII, does the air restricter plate (is this the anthracite conversion plate?) matter if the doors are wide open (fireplace)? Intuition says if the back air intake is closed and the damper closed to updraft, the conversion plate would not matter?

When you do use it as fireplace, what would lead to overfire and how do you prevent it? (Close updraft damper and limit amount of wood?)

What sized logs can you use--what is the maximum length and thickness that fit the top load?
When I use the fireplace mode (rarely) your're left with 2 ways to control the fire - the amount of wood and when you feed the logs. The other air controls don't really come into play. Nearly 100% of the air enters through the open doors. The length of the log is what ever fits :-), the diameter depends on the species and condition of the firewood.
charlesosborne2002 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:01 pm
VigII, I see you were right and I was wrong about the secondary air. In that case, I wonder why they call the air inlet "primary"? If there is no secondary, there is no primary...
franco b covered the air questions. I'd add that the Vigilant model went thru several redesigns over the years it was in production, originally starting out as a wood stove. The wood stove models used a primary air intake similar to the model 2310's thermostatic control. Secondary air used the small manual tear-drop shaped control located on the stove's left side. The left side casting never changed through the different models and kept the secondary opening even though it no longer serves its intended purpose. The 2310 is intended to be a coal only model and coal combusts differently than wood.

 
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Post by Bubbalowe » Fri. Nov. 02, 2018 10:17 am

While the 2310 was sold coal only and doesn't need to comply with EPA efficiency requirements like wood stove manufacturers it seems to burn wood OK. That has been my experience from inside, not sure what emissions are coming from chimney but no smoke or smell making me a bad neighbor. IMHO

 
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Post by charlesosborne2002 » Fri. Nov. 02, 2018 3:36 pm

I have a new one but I suspect it will burn wood like a fireplace (doors open), except that if you use the closed damper in the stove after the flue is hot, it will put out much more heat than a fireplace. Unlike earlier Vigilants, it has no secondary burn chamber and no hot oxygen tubes across the top. I expect to use it in fall and spring with wood or wood bricks just for an evening fire, and in my cottage that should be enough. I will experiment with closing the doors or just lifting them off. The glass may smoke up closed, as there is no "air wash" of secondary air.

 
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Post by Noxwill » Wed. Nov. 14, 2018 2:58 pm

I was given a griddle, 2'x4' 3/4" thick top, from a friend because he needed to get rid of it. The griddle sat in my garage for a while because i really couldn't see myself using it more than maybe a couple times a year. I eventually gave it to the local fire department so they could use it for their pancake breakfasts they have. I think my buddy used it maybe twice and i never used it in about 4 years time so it's not a very practical thing to have taking up valuable real estate. Maybe if you hosted a lot of parties i could see getting one but for the typical party host, a grill is much more functional. I think Cabelas sells smaller griddles that might be more practical than one that's 2'x4'. Just my opinion on griddles.

 
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Post by VigIIPeaBurner » Fri. Nov. 16, 2018 9:06 am

IMHO the griddle lid on the 2310 runs way too hot to cook on directly. Works great with a CI fry pan or for braising meat.

CO2002 - the glass will soot up quickly. There is a passive secondary air inlet at the bottom of each glass. If you look closely, there's no gasket material at the bottom of the glass.

I've used mine with wood in fp mode too. It does a great job. I even bought a VC screen for it but the VC screen is designed for the wood burning models with the larger ash lip. It still doe the job. I also have a wood burning fireplace that we use more often in the shoulder months than we use the 2310 fp mode.

 
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Post by charlesosborne2002 » Fri. Nov. 16, 2018 11:34 am

VigII, the griddle is indeed hot at full steam, but boiling things is no problem. I made spaghetti sauce by frying hamburger and onions, then tomatoes, etc., in a deep skillet with cover. The Vermont Castings brand surface thermometer gives temp instructions for cooking on the griddle--most things call for 350 to 450, which is fine if the stove is running at those temps. I doubt I would use the griddle itself directly, and for Crockpot type foods might use a flame-tamer under the pot. Cleaning the griddle would be an issue if you fried on it, even grilled sandwiches.

Yes, the glass was black after wood fire--unless the doors were open or removed. A small fire in the back of the stove is not so bad with doors closed, and the front of the grates provides an air wash between fire and glass. The bottom of the glass does have gasket material on mine, but each end of the gasket material may have a small gap. I am not sure whether this seals when closed or not. I wonder if drilling a hole under each glass would make an adequate air wash for wood fires? It could be closed with a simple steel bolt for coal--they come in black.

I have a freestanding fireplace screen that works fine in front of the fire when using wood. Even for coal I use it when I have company to make sure nobody brushes against the hot stove. The warming shelves on each side take care of that on the sides, as you can hold your hand on them.
VigIIPeaBurner wrote:
Fri. Nov. 16, 2018 9:06 am
g
IMHO the griddle lid on the 2310 runs way too hot to cook on directly. Works great with a CI fry pan or for braising meat.

CO2002 - the glass will soot up quickly. There is a passive secondary air inlet at the bottom of each glass. If you look closely, there's no gasket material at the bottom of the glass.

I've used mine with wood in fp mode too. It does a great job. I even bought a VC screen for it but the VC screen is designed for the wood burning models with the larger ash lip. It still doe the job. I also have a wood burning fireplace that we use more often in the shoulder months than we use the 2310 fp mode.

 
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Post by Bubbalowe » Mon. Nov. 19, 2018 6:59 pm

download/file.php?mode=view&id=91345

Recent local power outage had me digging out camp coffee pot, best coffee I am aware of. :D

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