Stove designs

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warminmn
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Post By: warminmn » Thu. Apr. 12, 2018 7:06 am

Janewaring wrote:
Thu. Apr. 12, 2018 4:23 am
Hi everyone,

Here is a picture of the flue pipe it's quite short. I will clean everything and check the flue for any blockages , although smoke was coming out. The silver foil is my makeshift repair for the vent that had dropped down. The house had been unoccupied for 2 years so I guess the owner did that to stop birds nesting. We did find a dead bird in the fire - eek.


Jane
I am unfamiliar with the piping outside the building. But it "looks like" stainless double or triple wall insulated going thru the wall into some type of single or double walled non-insulated pipe outside going along the building and up past the rooftop.

If Im correct (and I may not be) that is not going to draw very good.

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freetown fred
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Post By: freetown fred » Thu. Apr. 12, 2018 7:16 am

I agree with joe on your chimney. Keep us posted on the stove clean up.

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Sunny Boy
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Post By: Sunny Boy » Thu. Apr. 12, 2018 7:17 am

Agreed also.

That doesn't look like any outside insulated stove pipe that I've ever seen. It must be insulated or it will lose too much heat in the exhaust gases before they exit the pipe. Exhaust gas heat loss inside the chimney will give a very poor draft. Been there and suffered with lots of backdraft smoke trying to get by with single wall pipe outside. :oops:

And the chimney pipe length looks barely adequate to me. Minimum height of the chimney should be at least two feet above a 10 foot horizontal line measured to the nearest part of the roof. The taller it is the better it will draw.

Paul

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Post By: franco b » Thu. Apr. 12, 2018 9:46 am

That chimney looks like single wall to me. What is it made of?

No bracing as well.

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freetown fred
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Post By: freetown fred » Thu. Apr. 12, 2018 9:57 am

Richard--top section 1' from seam--heavy duty bracing. Looks at least double wall to me--probably triple.

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Post By: Janewaring » Fri. Apr. 13, 2018 4:29 am

Hi

The chimney is thicker at the bottom inlet and looks as if it is joined with some form of cement around the upwards joint and the house. The tube part is metal and it does sound quite solid, although not cast, how thick it is and how many walls it has I have no idea or even how to check this. I am not sure what it is made of. I will take my silver foil off and have a look down but suspect I may not be any wiser. I have a plumber vising in the next couple of days to look at my oil system, we are installing a couple of radiators because our bathrooms don't have any! I will ask the plumber about the flue.

The clean is planned for this weekend :yes:

Bye for now and many many thanks Jane

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Post By: Janewaring » Tue. Apr. 24, 2018 5:25 am

Hi Everyone, thank you for all of your advice it is most helpful. I have given the stove a good clean. During that process I identified that the rear flu pipe was not sealed and that the inspection cover over the flu pipe outside was also not fitted correctly. I have resealed the flue and have replaced the doors and top lid seals.

I have asked my friend about the flu pipe and it is not insulated. I can't quite remember what he said but I think it was that the pipe was steel. My friend brought a flu extension but we have not fitted it yet. he suggested trying the fire once the new seals had been fitted.

I have started the fire today but still had quite a bit of smoke leaking until it got going. When I started the fire smoke came out of the top lid, but given the volume it was hard to tell if smoke was leaking anywhere else. Once the draw was going it seems to be ok. I did open the outside door and a window to clear the room.

Any suggestions for resolving the smoke issue when lighting the fire or about the flu?

Bye for now Jane

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joeq
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Post By: joeq » Tue. Apr. 24, 2018 6:22 am

If you're using wood as kindling, I would try Matchlight charcoal next time. It doesn't smoke.

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freetown fred
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Post By: freetown fred » Tue. Apr. 24, 2018 6:23 am

Sounds like you're headed in the right direction--my double wall is NOT insulated & works well. Hopefully with more height, you'll get that smoke problem under control. Keep us posted. When lighting, try putting a lit piece of paper by the exhaust outlet inside the stove till it draws before really lighting up.--ditto on what J said above.

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Post By: rberq » Tue. Apr. 24, 2018 7:50 am

joeq wrote:
Tue. Apr. 24, 2018 6:22 am
If you're using wood as kindling, I would try Matchlight charcoal next time. It doesn't smoke.
Matchlight charcoal is good for starting coal, but it's pretty stinky. If smoke/fumes are coming into the house at startup, it seems like the stink may come too.

As everyone has pointed out, more chimney height should help. Ideally it should draw even with no fire. Before lighting the kindling I open the stove's load door and slap a sheet of newspaper over the opening. If the paper is being gently sucked into the stove I know it's good to go. If it's being blown away from the opening, into the room, bad.

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Post By: Sunny Boy » Tue. Apr. 24, 2018 9:02 am

At startup, the stove is back drafting because the cold air inside the chimney is heavier than the warm air in the house. When that happens the warmer house wants to become the chimney.

I had this problem with a single wall stove pipe in my first house, and with the overly large fireplace in my present house. The cure was to do as Fred said - first heat the air in the chimney quickly.

Close all the dampers for now - even the stove pipe damper.

After you've get your fire all set and ready to light, ball up a single piece of news paper, loosely. Place it at the opening into the stove pipe, or as close as possible. If you can get it into the pipe opening even better.

Quickly open the stove pipe damper and then the loading door and light the news paper ball and close the loading door. Count to ten. The paper should have warmed the air in the chimney enough that it won't back draft when you light the kindling.

Then open the loading door and light the kindling. Close the loading door and open lower damper on the stove.

If you can install the correct type of outside stove pipe, and give it plenty of height, it will help increase the draft strength. But even at that, if the stove has been out and the air inside the pipe is colder than the house you'll need to go through that warming it first each time you do a cold-pipe startup.

Paul

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Post By: Janewaring » Tue. Apr. 24, 2018 9:39 am

Excellent advice as always and brilliant suggestions :yes: . I will try the chimney warming method next time I light the fire. It has smoked on and off all day which is very disappointing :no1:.

Hope to report back with good news soon

Jane

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Post By: franco b » Tue. Apr. 24, 2018 9:46 am

Getting a proper insulated double wall chimney is the best solution.

Keep checking your local Craigslist. Often used pipes are available for a fraction of the cost, and when used previously with wood will be in great shape.

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Sunny Boy
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Post By: Sunny Boy » Tue. Apr. 24, 2018 10:03 am

Janewaring wrote:
Tue. Apr. 24, 2018 9:39 am
Excellent advice as always and brilliant suggestions :yes: . I will try the chimney warming method next time I light the fire. It has smoked on and off all day which is very disappointing :no1:.

Hope to report back with good news soon

Jane
If it leaks smoke when refueling, open the lower and pipe dampers fully for a couple of minutes and let it get the fire and chimney really hot before you open the loading door. That "heat bank" built up inside the chimney will strengthen the draft and help prevent back drafting leaks during reloading.

Then, just before opening the loading door, close the lower damper so that it will only pull air from the loading door opening, rather than leak it out with the door is opened. Then you can reopen the lower damper after you've closed the loading door.

If it smokes while running you may be getting back drafts induced by wind turbulence because of how the wind flows over the roof. A taller chimney will often get the top clear of that turbulence.

Paul

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Post By: Janewaring » Wed. May. 02, 2018 4:22 pm

Hi Everyone, things are getting better. I have added an extension to the chimney and have used the method of lighting a piece of paper in the chimney to warm the chimney before lighting the fire. I have then used smokeless coal with firelighters and the smoking was minimal. I have had a warm room today and am falling back in love with the Jotul.

Thank you so much for your educational advice.

Jane :D :D

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