Russia Ukrainian war explained

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ColdHouse
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Post by ColdHouse » Mon. Feb. 20, 2023 3:46 am


 
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franpipeman
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Post by franpipeman » Mon. Feb. 20, 2023 8:37 am

this you tube has a lot of truths and also a lot of misinformation. Russia has used the same play book even before my Lithuanian grandfather escaped Lithuania in around 1907. The Russians where taking Lithuania to fight their wars of aggression . they forced people to give up their native cultures an languages. My grandfather choice was to be drafted by the russians or leave his farm to another country He ended up in Southeast Pensylvania There was no USSR at the time. . Read the below opinion piece written by a Ukrainian about conquered Russian countries .Russia has a long history of conducting it self in this fashion

In 1956 Hungary was becoming westernized economically , Russia intervened and crushed it . The US hinted we would help Hungary (Eisenhower was in office). We didnt and Russia crushed the people led uprising.
This one of the few times we have assisted the Struggles of the satellite republics of was once the USSR

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/20/opinion/russia ... =url-share

 
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Post by ColdHouse » Mon. Feb. 20, 2023 10:07 am

franpipeman wrote:
Mon. Feb. 20, 2023 8:37 am
this you tube has a lot of truths and also a lot of misinformation. Russia has used the same play book even before my Lithuanian grandfather escaped Lithuania in around 1907. The Russians where taking Lithuania to fight their wars of aggression . they forced people to give up their native cultures an languages. My grandfather choice was to be drafted by the russians or leave his farm to another country He ended up in Southeast Pensylvania There was no USSR at the time. . Read the below opinion piece written by a Ukrainian about conquered Russian countries .Russia has a long history of conducting it self in this fashion

In 1956 Hungary was becoming westernized economically , Russia intervened and crushed it . The US hinted we would help Hungary (Eisenhower was in office). We didnt and Russia crushed the people led uprising.
This one of the few times we have assisted the Struggles of the satellite republics of was once the USSR

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/20/opinion/russia ... =url-share
History can shed light on current events. If one were to scrutinize America it has a long list of terrible acts.

 
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Post by franpipeman » Mon. Feb. 20, 2023 10:56 am

Yes it does hence the expression “to create a more perfect union”


 
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Post by davidmcbeth3 » Mon. Feb. 20, 2023 1:03 pm

https://buchanan.org/blog/columns

It was noted that the Ukraine conflict is nothing more than Russia trying to keep NATO away from its southern boarders.

Ukraine is not strategically important to the US.

My guess it will end with the boarders being the same and Ukraine not entering NATO. And Russia will modernize its Army and be more of a threat to NATO and US will continue to pour $$$ into NATO until we are bankrupt.

Winning

 
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Post by exwoodburner » Mon. Feb. 20, 2023 2:05 pm

davidmcbeth3 wrote:
Mon. Feb. 20, 2023 1:03 pm
It was noted that the Ukraine conflict is nothing more than Russia trying to keep NATO away from its southern boarders.
That has to be the most bogus reason ever dreamed up. How is a Russian occupied Ukraine any different than Sovereign Ukraine that is a member of NATO as it pertains to borders? If Russia were to occupy Ukraine on the pretense it didn't want NATO nations on its borders then it would then have to occupy Romania, Hungary, Slovakia, and Poland. Then after that it would need to invade and occupy Germany, Austria, Czech Republic, Slovenia, Croatia, etc. and so on all the way to the Atlantic Ocean. The fact is Putin has never to this day announced his strategic goals for this "special operation". If he were to succeed in overrunning Ukraine you might as well kiss Moldova goodbye as well. Now it looks like NATO will have two additional new members as a result of Putin's actions. Did he figure on that happening? If you go back a year or two or more I seriously have to think you would need to be a completely delusional sociopath to think that NATO nations were conspiring against you and planning some sort of war or engagement against your country. And that the biggest threat to normal every day Russians is NATO. So you fire up an invasion of a neighboring sovereign nation because "you want to keep NATO away". Now NATO is stronger than ever. Makes great sense.....Sociopathic narcissism is a thing I guess. I imagine just like in WWII, stopping one person would stop the whole thing. It's insane.

 
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Post by davidmcbeth3 » Mon. Feb. 20, 2023 2:33 pm

exwoodburner wrote:
Mon. Feb. 20, 2023 2:05 pm
Now it looks like NATO will have two additional new members as a result of Putin's actions. Did he figure on that happening? ....If you go back a year or two or more I seriously have to think you would need to be a completely delusional sociopath to think that NATO nations were conspiring against you and planning some sort of war or engagement against your country.
Well, some nations might join NATO as a result.

A joining of a country does not equal a plan to attack. Poland joined, no attack.

Putin never said he would have considered Ukraine joining NATO = an attack

He simply did not want Ukraine joining NATO and being boxed in.

Ukraine is not significant to the USA.

And NATO does not need Ukraine to attack Russia. And visa-versa.

End the conflict, everyone goes to where they were and Ukraine does not join NATO. Simple solution.

 
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Post by Sunny Boy » Mon. Feb. 20, 2023 2:58 pm

It was never really about Ukraine joining NATO and Russia losing a "buffer country" against NATO. Russia has long had many other NATO countries right on its borders and not started a war over them.

What Putin wants is two things.

Military control over the Black Sea, Russia's only ice-free ports. That's why the land-grabs have all been Black Sea countries. Georgia, Crimea, and now eastern Ukraine.

Plus, he wants the resource-rich eastern part of Ukraine.

The "bread basket" of Europe.
https://www.iea.org/reports/ukraine-energy-profil ... y-security

And the oil and gas there. https://about.soar.earth/press-releases/maps-show ... -resources

https://www.iea.org/reports/ukraine-energy-profil ... y-security

Paul


 
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Post by exwoodburner » Mon. Feb. 20, 2023 3:31 pm

davidmcbeth3 wrote:
Mon. Feb. 20, 2023 2:33 pm
Well, some nations might join NATO as a result.

A joining of a country does not equal a plan to attack. Poland joined, no attack.

Putin never said he would have considered Ukraine joining NATO = an attack

He simply did not want Ukraine joining NATO and being boxed in.

Ukraine is not significant to the USA.

And NATO does not need Ukraine to attack Russia. And visa-versa.

End the conflict, everyone goes to where they were and Ukraine does not join NATO. Simple solution.
Obviously countries joining doesn't equal an impending attack. Its a defensive pact. If a country wants to join NATO it is because it fears or suspects an offensive attack for whatever reason from another nation, historically the CCCP now mainly Russia. Your most likely missing the point. Nobody including your average Russian citizen gives a $hit about NATO. Nobody except Putin. And now his unilateral actions are causing it to get stronger and more aligned. After all Ukraine's plans to join NATO were shelved in 2010, only to be rekindled when Putin invaded the country in 2014. Maybe if he would have just kept to himself during that time Ukraine would still be in favor of unalignment. Who knows. But when you see some unrest inside a neighboring country's border and roll in an annex the area(s) of unrest don't expect said country to not desire to form alliances against you. I know its very difficult to do so but image this: The state of Maine develops some unrest and wants to become part of Canada for whatever reason. Before the USA is able to work out any type of solution, Canada invades the country, annexes, and occupies Maine. Now what? Is the rest of the country supposed to sit on its hands and do nothing? Maybe we look to Mexico for an alliance that says if Canada invades us any further you will help defend us? Putin has a lust for conquest. He wants destruction of Ukraine's army, subjugation of the Ukrainian people, control of the Black and Azov Sea ports, and whatever else he can pilfer along the way.

I'm sure there were other small turning points to this conflict but I have to imagine the huge majority of responsibility for this mess falls on Viktor Yanukovych for not following through with his citizen's and parliament's overwhelming majority desire to joint the EU-Ukraine Association Agreement.
Last edited by exwoodburner on Mon. Feb. 20, 2023 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 
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Post by davidmcbeth3 » Mon. Feb. 20, 2023 3:47 pm

In respect to MAINE...the only positive thing about that state is that you can register your car there even if you live out of state..if you wished to scheme to avoid motor vehicle taxes (like people do with florida plates..but they actually have a physical presence there sometimes).

Putin may now wish all that stuff. Should the US get involved to the point of making our own security at play ? No.

 
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Post by ColdHouse » Sun. Feb. 26, 2023 6:33 pm


 
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Post by ColdHouse » Mon. Feb. 27, 2023 5:53 am


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