Kill-O-Watt thread that turned into Russian discussion

 
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Richard S.
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Post by Richard S. » Sat. May. 25, 2024 7:48 am

Sunny Boy wrote:
Fri. May. 24, 2024 11:04 pm
With all the advances in missile tech, neither side has been able to gain air superiority in more than two years now. This has not really been much of an air war, so I don't see the F-16 doing much to change that.
The Russians have been able to use their jets in a stand off role firing into Ukraine from safe areas they control. The F-16 has a better radar and munitions than the old Russian tech Ukraine currently has. That is going to allow them to defend against these planes, the munitions they are using and even ground targets inside of Russian controlled space.

It's not going to win the war but it's significant upgrade over the air capabilities they have now.
Russia didn't lose thousands of pieces of armor and hundreds of thousands of troop casualties to aircraft, they lost them to some antitank missiles, and lots of artillery and drones.


They weren't facing the most maneuverable plane on the planet with modern radar either.

Notice no country has given Ukraine ground attack aircraft like our A-10, designed to take out armor
The A-10 has a very specific role when air superiority has been achieved.


 
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Post by Sunny Boy » Sat. May. 25, 2024 10:03 am

Richard S. wrote:
Sat. May. 25, 2024 7:48 am
The Russians have been able to use their jets in a stand off role firing into Ukraine from safe areas they control. The F-16 has a better radar and munitions than the old Russian tech Ukraine currently has. That is going to allow them to defend against these planes, the munitions they are using and even ground targets inside of Russian controlled space.

It's not going to win the war but it's significant upgrade over the air capabilities they have now.



They weren't facing the most maneuverable plane on the planet with modern radar either.




The A-10 has a very specific role when air superiority has been achieved.


Yet the Ukrainians have shot down a lot of Russian fighters/bombers, plus two AWAC planes even further away - all without expensive fighter jets. The Russians have been forced to use long range "stand-off" missile tactics with their jets because they could not gain air superiority even with their best. Ukrainian SAMs and Manpads have seen to that. Missile tech has advanced to where air superiority is very unlikely for both sides. And the best fighter jet isn't much good when there is no one coming in range to use it against.

The question then is how will a few F-16, that very likely will not have our latest tech, change that ? Jets can only carry a limited amount of ordinance, they are very expensive to own and maintain, even for us. Neither side will advance much by depending on the most maneuverable fighter in a war that is all about gaining and holding ground.

We can't equate this to previous wars. With modern high-tech antiair missiles, fighter jets suck at stopping artillery barrages and swarms of small drones.

The one thing that this war is proving, as in every war, is its boots on the ground that will decide who gets to own Ukraine. And while having top fighter jets sounds sexy, they won't do as much bang for the buck to get there. You just have to look at how much serious damage Ukraine has done to Russia's military and logistics by just using a lot of far less expensive equipment to see that.

Paul

 
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Post by waytomany?s » Sat. May. 25, 2024 11:26 am

I think they are on the right track hitting refineries, targeting ammunition depots and aircraft hangers.

 
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Post by Sunny Boy » Sat. May. 25, 2024 11:47 am

waytomany?s wrote:
Sat. May. 25, 2024 11:26 am
I think they are on the right track hitting refineries, targeting ammunition depots and aircraft hangers.
One of the priorities of war - destroy the enemy's ability to wage war and that includes their logistics stream. Armies grind to a halt without fuel to get food, ammo, and spare parts.

Paul

 
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Post by ColdHouse » Sat. May. 25, 2024 12:23 pm

My prediction is Ukraine will lose the war and regret not negotiating peace sooner.
Last edited by ColdHouse on Sat. May. 25, 2024 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 
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Post by k-2 » Sat. May. 25, 2024 12:55 pm

ColdHouse wrote:
Sat. May. 25, 2024 12:23 pm
My prediction is Ukraine will lose the war and regret not negotiation peace sooner.
Only after every fighting age man is dead. Then russia can remake the whole country in their image by making all future generationsa100% russian.

 
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Post by k-2 » Sat. May. 25, 2024 12:57 pm

Sunny Boy wrote:
Sat. May. 25, 2024 11:47 am
One of the priorities of war - destroy the enemy's ability to wage war and that includes their logistics stream. Armies grind to a halt without fuel to get food, ammo, and spare parts.

Paul
Is that how Afg kicked our butts and the russians butt? Ukraine should take a lesson from that war. Might have had a better outcome.


 
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Post by Sunny Boy » Sat. May. 25, 2024 2:06 pm

k-2 wrote:
Sat. May. 25, 2024 12:57 pm
Is that how Afg kicked our butts and the russians butt? Ukraine should take a lesson from that war. Might have had a better outcome.
No. And it's a novice's mistake to think that the war in Ukraine equates with the war in Afghanistan.

Plus, the Afghans didn't "kick our butts". Just like with Vietnam, our politicians and the media did that. There is a big difference between our military that was beating the enemy and giving the war away by politicians that control the military and the media that controls the politicians.

The Taliban didn't beat us and capture 80 billion worth of our military equipment and supplies, Biden gave it to them when he suddenly pulled the troops out without time to recover all that equipment.

Paul

 
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Post by k-2 » Sat. May. 25, 2024 2:47 pm

And while we are wasting huge amounts of time and money on Ukraines problems our own fester and grow.

Did you hear what our FBI Director just warned?
He said, and I quote:
“China’s hackers are positioning on American infrastructure in preparation to wreak havoc…and cause real world harm to American citizens and communities.”
“And let’s be clear, cyber threats to our critical infrastructure represent real world threats to our physical safety.”
He even called the CCP’s dangerous actions, “the defining threat of our generation”
And revealed that China’s hackers outnumber the FBI’s by at least 50 to 1

 
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Post by k-2 » Sat. May. 25, 2024 2:51 pm

Sunny Boy wrote:
Sat. May. 25, 2024 2:06 pm
The Taliban didn't beat us and capture 80 billion worth of our military equipment and supplies, Biden gave it to them when he suddenly pulled the troops out without time to recover all that equipment.
Paul
If our Govt is that incompetent "and it is" what hope do we have against a much stronger and richer country?

 
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Post by ColdHouse » Sat. May. 25, 2024 3:39 pm

k-2 wrote:
Sat. May. 25, 2024 2:51 pm
If our Govt is that incompetent "and it is" what hope do we have against a much stronger and richer country?
Did you see the US beached ships?
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2024/05/bidens-g ... hed-shore/

 
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Post by Sunny Boy » Sat. May. 25, 2024 4:06 pm

k-2 wrote:
Sat. May. 25, 2024 2:51 pm
If our Govt is that incompetent "and it is" what hope do we have against a much stronger and richer country?
And which country is "much stronger and richer" than us ?

Certainly not Russia with 1/10th our military budget - with now much of their military destroyed. And not China with less than half the budget of ours.

Paul

 
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Post by Sunny Boy » Sat. May. 25, 2024 4:36 pm

ColdHouse wrote:
Sat. May. 25, 2024 3:39 pm
Did you see the US beached ships?
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2024/05/bidens-g ... hed-shore/

A couple of small work boats and barges part of the team for the pier they are building. Not a "disaster" except for those gullible for highly sensationalized news that is just click bait.

https://thehill.com/policy/4686031-us-ships-opera ... ls-shores/

Paul

 
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Post by k-2 » Sun. May. 26, 2024 11:55 am

Sunny Boy wrote:
Sat. May. 25, 2024 4:06 pm
And which country is "much stronger and richer" than us ?
Certainly not Russia with 1/10th our military budget - with now much of their military destroyed. And not China with less than half the budget of ours.
Paul
All which means absolutely nothing.Care to compare the salary of a Chinese soldior to one in the US or even Russian.
A newly enlisted soldier in the US makes more than a general in the Chinese army. And how many serve for free to stay out of prison in china? And dont forget the $10,000 hammers and toilet seats the US military is famous for. We could spend 100 times what china spends and still not have a superior fighting force when much of it is wasted. If you dont think Russia is richer or stronger than afg. then theres nothing to debate.

 
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Post by Sunny Boy » Sun. May. 26, 2024 12:40 pm

It means a lot and has all along.

Try showing that the Chinese paying their military less makes for better trained troops and world-class military leaders. Their society overall doesn't have anywhere near the standard of living we do, especially their military. Plus, they don't have a VA system or give their solders the many benefits and allowances that we do, which certainly cannot be considered a waste on our part.

Plus, their military is over-run with corruption that funnels large amounts of military monies to those generals you say don't make as much as our solders. So much so that there was a recent huge purge of their top military. Try doing a search of Chinese military corruption and you'll find lots of reports such as this one.

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/sweeping-chin ... 023-12-30/

Then try showing that Chinese military tech engineers is better when they have to steal so much of it from other country's tech to not even get equal to us. And still a lot of it doesn't work as well as they claim, just like the Russia tech doesn't.

The CCP has been threatening to invade Tiawan for years, while also threatening and harassing our Navy's ships in the area there to support Tiawan. With such a huge navy, if you think the Chinese military is so superior, then why haven't they taken Tiawan by now ?

Russia invaded Ukraine while they knew we had a weak Administration in Washington, same as they did when they invaded Crimea. Tiawan is even further and logically far tougher for us to support. So why didn't China take advantage of the situation like Russia did, follow through on their many threats, and invade Tiawan?

Paul


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