Christmas Storm 2022

Sunny Boy · Post by **Sunny Boy** » Fri. Dec. 30, 2022 11:28 am

Lightning wrote: ↑
Fri. Dec. 30, 2022 11:08 am
Thanks nut! I couldn't imagine what a repair like that would cost by a professional HVAC service!

Or,... how long you'd have to wait for one to get there after that kind of weather. My guess is they are all swamped with calls like yours.

Paul

Post by **Lightning** » Fri. Dec. 30, 2022 11:51 am

Sunny Boy wrote: ↑
Fri. Dec. 30, 2022 11:28 am
Or,... how long you'd have to wait for one to get there after that kind of weather.

Oh man, yer right! I didn't even think about that part of it..

Post by **Lightning** » Fri. Dec. 30, 2022 10:47 pm

So among all that happened there was one more thing I forgot to mention.. it seems that my Honeywell wifi thermostats don't show a reading less than 40 degrees. I check them daily and it said both rooms in the outbuilding were 40 degrees all thru that cold snap, so I never thought there was a problem. While I was doing repairs yesterday I found a FROZEN bottle of drinking water. So it's clearly evident that the music studio side of the building went well below freezing.. how's that for a head scratcher?

hank2 · Post by **hank2** » Fri. Dec. 30, 2022 11:54 pm

Lightning wrote: ↑
Fri. Dec. 30, 2022 10:47 pm
So among all that happened there was one more thing I forgot to mention.. it seems that my Honeywell wifi thermostats don't show a reading less than 40 degrees. I check them daily and it said both rooms in the outbuilding were 40 degrees all thru that cold snap, so I never thought there was a problem. While I was doing repairs yesterday I found a FROZEN bottle of drinking water. So it's clearly evident that the music studio side of the building went well below freezing.. how's that for a head scratcher?

I don't know modern thermostats, but do you think there may a logic on those or the receiver that reads a maximum setback as an off? I have two old school hardwired mercury witch T/S's. I believe the minimum setting on those is 50 or 55. Sorry to hear of the big trouble.

I had an oil boiler problem appear on Christmas Eve day. Called a real plumber/HVAC that afternoon and was told not until Tues. AM when they reopened. It wasn't a real emergency anyhow, I managed to alleviate the problem myself later. Called them back on Tuesday AM to cancel, which pleased them. They had 15 other calls as soon as they opened for frozen pipes, etc. I used to use the guys from my oil dealer and at one time they had one or two decent guys. Nothing but Beavis and Butthead times 3, today. They get a 5 day HVAC training course before they turn them loose on customers equipment.

Post by **Lightning** » Fri. Dec. 30, 2022 11:58 pm

hank2 wrote: ↑
Fri. Dec. 30, 2022 11:54 pm
but do you think there may a logic on those or the receiver that reads a maximum setback as an off?

Thanks for the suggestion, but no. If system is set to "heat" it will indeed relay to heat at 40 degrees.

Glad you were able to fix yer oil boiler!

hotblast1357 · Post by **hotblast1357** » Sat. Dec. 31, 2022 8:09 am

Lightning wrote: ↑
Fri. Dec. 30, 2022 10:47 pm
So among all that happened there was one more thing I forgot to mention.. it seems that my Honeywell wifi thermostats don't show a reading less than 40 degrees. I check them daily and it said both rooms in the outbuilding were 40 degrees all thru that cold snap, so I never thought there was a problem. While I was doing repairs yesterday I found a FROZEN bottle of drinking water. So it's clearly evident that the music studio side of the building went well below freezing.. how's that for a head scratcher?

I mean your pipes froze so we know it was colder than 40?

ColdHouse · Post by **ColdHouse** » Sat. Dec. 31, 2022 8:18 am

Is it easy to drain your system? Would it be wise to make it easy to drain? If there were extended periods of time that you didn't need to outbuilding and it were protected from freezing would that make sense? It seemed like you repaired the system in something like 6 hours. I would imagine if it were drain friendly, it would only take a couple of minutes. Hook up a hose and open a couple of valves. Filling and purging air as you know is pretty fast also.

Post by **Lightning** » Sat. Dec. 31, 2022 9:41 am

hotblast1357 wrote: ↑
Sat. Dec. 31, 2022 8:09 am
I mean your pipes froze so we know it was colder than 40?

Right lol. But the floor could have been colder due to stratification and the radiators are along outside walls. The thermostat is at head level on an inside wall. So there could be variances in the room. The water bottle was at about 3 feet high closer to the center of the room.

Post by **Lightning** » Sat. Dec. 31, 2022 10:03 am

ColdHouse wrote: ↑
Sat. Dec. 31, 2022 8:18 am
Is it easy to drain your system? Would it be wise to make it easy to drain? If there were extended periods of time that you didn't need to outbuilding and it were protected from freezing would that make sense?

I could drain that loop in the event of an emergency, like if the boiler broke down. The lines would need to be blown out with forced air, a shop vac could likely do it. We do heat it up occasionally during the winter so my wife can do spray tans and so my band can practice.

ColdHouse · Post by **ColdHouse** » Sat. Dec. 31, 2022 10:09 am

Lightning wrote: ↑
Sat. Dec. 31, 2022 10:03 am
I could drain that loop in the event of an emergency, like if the boiler broke down. The lines would need to be blown out with forced air, a shop vac could likely do it. We do heat it up occasionally during the winter so my wife can do spray tans and so my band can practice.

After posting that I got to thinking with the small amount of coal you consume it is probably better to just heat the space. I was always curious about feeding the end of a loop into a space just to remove the chill. So possibly direct a loop to that area with water that has already circulated thru a different zone before it returns to the boiler.

Post by **Lightning** » Sat. Dec. 31, 2022 10:52 am

Member Hotblast1357 suggested I keep it warmer than 40 degrees when not in use... and I do appreciate the advice. I really don't know how much more coal it would use. What I do know is that I only need it to not freeze when not in use. Keeping it at 40 works until I do something dumb like set it back to 40 from 68. Which is exactly what I did during below zero outside conditions. It simply took too long for the room to drop to 40 where the loop would run again. Some of the pex lines are under the floor and exposed to the cold with only foam insulators, which needs improvement. This would be where the first blockage formed that shut down the loop. Then over the following days the rest of the loop froze and busted the copper in the room.

I've had it set at 40 out there last year during nights of -13 degrees. It didn't freeze because of course the colder it gets, the more often the loops run. Another benefit of keeping it at 40 is that once it gets above 37 OAT the loop doesn't run at all, which could be days at a time occasionally, like now for example. I know it seems like I'm being a Scrooge with my coal but I can't stand the thought of keeping the outbuilding excessively warm while no one is using it. I even yell at my kids after 15 minutes in the shower, "HEY! Yer burning up my coal!"

To me it's more about the coal than the money, which is back asswords, I do admit lol

What I learned is that I have to be smart about the set backs and do it in increments so that the loop isn't stagnant for an extended period of time

Post by **Rob R.** » Sat. Dec. 31, 2022 12:16 pm

Lee, a timer on the circulator would also be a simple means of freeze protection.

Post by **Lightning** » Tue. Jan. 10, 2023 5:17 pm

hotblast1357 wrote: ↑
Thu. Dec. 29, 2022 6:10 am
I’m glad you found it when you did and you had your auto fill on!

I've been thinking about this.. Turns out that having the autofill on probably stopped the boiler from going dry. Since the outbuilding is lower (elevation wise) than the boiler, the leaks would have syphoned the boiler dry by back feeding thru the return.