Sunny Boy:
Energy storage can be electric batteries , water , heat, and others.
Have you ever heard of of off peak thermal storage?
There is a lot going on in Sweden ,Denmark and Norway.
https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:60760 ... TEXT02.pdf
I first saw these units in Germany in the late 1960's.
https://www.google.com/search?q=off+peak+storage+ ... nt=gws-wiz
There were a few mfgrs in US but I only know of 1 current co that make units
for forced air and hot water heat.
Steffes still makes the heating equipment.
https://www.steffes.com/ets/
BigBarney
Buy an electric car !!!
- Sunny Boy
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Of course I've heard of storage units.
I've used some of them since the late 60's. We used some of the early cordless drills in the boatyard. Working on boats in the water and 50 feet up a mast is no a good place for extension cords. And I've continued to use the in my work. They have a place, but it's still limited.
Guess what ? In 70 years, battery storage has not advanced much. I still use rechargeable tools but not when I need them to do a lot of work because they just can't do the work of plug-in tools - both power-wise and duration. Even with the huge demand for automotive batteries, they aren't much different than 50,70, or even 90 years ago. But look at how much other scientific advances have been made in that time to things that use electricity.
Storage has never kept up because,.....
The storage devices are very expensive, they do not give as much power as direct connection to the charging power source and the storage device degrades with every use. Plus looses charge with time. That's why, like your EV's power storage it has not caught on big after 70 years of trying.
As for Europe, they've had to find other ways. Doesn't mean their technology is any better. They haven't had the natural resources to have as much choice as we've had. Energy has always been much more expensive there. When my 1933 Austin was new, gasoline in England was the equivalent of about $5.00 American.
I let a friend from London drive my 72 AMX. I was shocked when after a few miles he was so excited about driving it that he stopped in the middle of traffic and jumped out to take a picture of the car to show his buds back home. He said that he'd never be able afford to put a car with that much power on the road in England,..... and it was only the small 304 V8. He would have had a real melt-down had it been a big American V8.
And the battery in it lasted just as long as modern batteries.
Paul
I've used some of them since the late 60's. We used some of the early cordless drills in the boatyard. Working on boats in the water and 50 feet up a mast is no a good place for extension cords. And I've continued to use the in my work. They have a place, but it's still limited.
Guess what ? In 70 years, battery storage has not advanced much. I still use rechargeable tools but not when I need them to do a lot of work because they just can't do the work of plug-in tools - both power-wise and duration. Even with the huge demand for automotive batteries, they aren't much different than 50,70, or even 90 years ago. But look at how much other scientific advances have been made in that time to things that use electricity.
Storage has never kept up because,.....
The storage devices are very expensive, they do not give as much power as direct connection to the charging power source and the storage device degrades with every use. Plus looses charge with time. That's why, like your EV's power storage it has not caught on big after 70 years of trying.
As for Europe, they've had to find other ways. Doesn't mean their technology is any better. They haven't had the natural resources to have as much choice as we've had. Energy has always been much more expensive there. When my 1933 Austin was new, gasoline in England was the equivalent of about $5.00 American.
I let a friend from London drive my 72 AMX. I was shocked when after a few miles he was so excited about driving it that he stopped in the middle of traffic and jumped out to take a picture of the car to show his buds back home. He said that he'd never be able afford to put a car with that much power on the road in England,..... and it was only the small 304 V8. He would have had a real melt-down had it been a big American V8.
And the battery in it lasted just as long as modern batteries.
Paul
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What an excellent post. Now look around you as the world goes coal crazy. Suddenly, we are the star of the party instead of the lepers ... interesting world indeed
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That was true with the first real EV in the 90s ,the EV1 that used lead acid batteries and only got 70 miles of range.Sunny Boy wrote: ↑Tue. Jun. 21, 2022 8:13 amEven with the huge demand for automotive batteries, they aren't much different than 50,70, or even 90 years ago. But look at how much other scientific advances have been made in that time to things that use electricity.
And the battery in it lasted just as long as modern batteries.
Paul
Fast forward to 2022 and a new GM Bolt gets 260 with Li-ion batteries ,a considerable improvement.
Just did another cost comparison on charging cost for a GM bolt vs buying gas for our GM cruze.
Even when compared to a 40MPG car the Bolt cost about $8 to charge to go the same 260 miles our GM Cruze goes on $32 worth of gas.
So the gas power car cost 4 times the price per mile as the Bolt. Compared to a 30MPG car its 5.4 times more. Even 3 times better than a prius at 55MPG .
As far as going on a trip, 99% of our auto miles is commuting back and forth to work. We bought the cruze just for the higher MPG for commuting. Of course theres still other problems to solve like grid age.
Last edited by k-2 on Tue. Jun. 21, 2022 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Yea people would look at me funny when they learn i still burn coal for heat. Now as they freeze with oil heat they are looking at it a different way. Nat gas is still reasonable even with recent price increases but who knows what this coming heating season will bring ,probably another rush to switch from oil to nat. gas and drive that up too.coalnewbie wrote: ↑Tue. Jun. 21, 2022 9:17 amWhat an excellent post. Now look around you as the world goes coal crazy. Suddenly, we are the star of the party instead of the lepers ... interesting world indeed
- Sunny Boy
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And Li-ion is still "horse and buggy" compared to the almost 500 mile range that my ICE vehicles can do on a tank full. And they can regain the same distance in about 10 minutes in any gas station, and not be stuck waiting hours to get maybe half that, or have an expensive car that is only convenient for local driving.k-2 wrote: ↑Tue. Jun. 21, 2022 10:41 amThat was true with the first real EV in the 90s ,the EV1 that used lead acid batteries and only got 70 miles of range.
Fast forward to 2022 and a new GM Bolt gets 260 with Li-ion batteries ,a considerable improvement.
Just did another cost comparison on charging cost for a GM bolt vs buying gas for our GM cruze.
Even when compared to a 40MPG car the Bolt cost about $8 to charge to go the same 260 miles our GM Cruze goes on $32 worth of gas.
So the gas power car cost 4 times the price per mile as the Bolt. Compared to a 30MPG car its 5.4 times more. Even 3 times better than a prius at 55MPG .
As far as going on a trip, 99% of our auto miles is commuting back and forth to work. We bought the cruze just for the higher MPG for commuting. Of course theres still other problems to solve like grid age.
And looking at the amount of traffic on the roads the last few days, with gas at $5.00, I'd say that economy is not important to the vaste amount of drivers as you and BB may assume.
Plus, something EV owners miss is that ICE owners put a higher value on how much time they are willing to spend being able to travel more than just the "average daily" because EVs can't got as anywhere near as far. Especially with the heater or A/C on. When a Tesla owner says his Tesla readout told him he lost 40% distance because he was running the A/C during just over a 100 mile trip on a 95 degree day, that makes EVs a tougher sell.
And, have you tried taking a long trip with kids ? Tough enough with their short attention spans in an ICE vehicle.
Forget about telling them they have to sit somewhere for a few hours while the car recharges.
And,.... the fact that after many, many years of "development" and all the "buzz" about EVs, the market share for EV is still well down in the single digits. Hard to argue with that fact.
Paul