Afghanistan Withdrawal
- Richard S.
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To start off with I will state I supported the invasion of Afghanistan and would still support it today if there was a do over. You simply cannot ignore the fact it was where Al-Aqaeda was based. I also agree with the Biden Administrations decision to stick with the decisions made under Trump to leave. We have been there long enough and if we have been unable to accomplish our goals by now we aren't going to.
The questions I have today is how did 4 Presidential administration manage to screw this up so badly, especially what we have seen transpire over the past few days. Much like the Obama administration was surprised by the "JV Team" in Iraq the Biden administration has been surprised by the Taliban. How did they not see this coming?
Thousands of US servicemen lives loss, tens of thousands permanently disabled for life and more than 2 trillion dollars. There is also the enormous amount of Afghanis that have lost their lives, those we have abandoned who will lose their lives and those that remain to live under a brutally repressive Islamic fundamentalist regime. The only thing we have to show for all these sacrifices is people so desperate to leave that country they are falling off of US military planes as they take off from Kabul airport. We have to be better than this.
The questions I have today is how did 4 Presidential administration manage to screw this up so badly, especially what we have seen transpire over the past few days. Much like the Obama administration was surprised by the "JV Team" in Iraq the Biden administration has been surprised by the Taliban. How did they not see this coming?
Thousands of US servicemen lives loss, tens of thousands permanently disabled for life and more than 2 trillion dollars. There is also the enormous amount of Afghanis that have lost their lives, those we have abandoned who will lose their lives and those that remain to live under a brutally repressive Islamic fundamentalist regime. The only thing we have to show for all these sacrifices is people so desperate to leave that country they are falling off of US military planes as they take off from Kabul airport. We have to be better than this.
- johnjoseph
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After 911, the thought was let's contain terrorists to the middle east and implement a government modeled after our own. Hindsight is 20/20...there was never an exit plan from Afghanistan, Iraq and for that matter, the middle east. Trump started the exit process and Biden followed through; boots on the ground didn't accomplish the expected outcome and it wasn't expected things would fall apart so quickly upon our departure. Simply put, from the near east to the far east the thought process is far from similar to our own. Complacency and lack of cultural competence have played and will continue to effect our response across the globe. The "war machine" is a money maker; it's not the soul factor of failure, but a significant contribution to "staying put" in the middle east. Side note, Russia or USSR had much the same experience, but a different motivator.
- warminmn
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Ive never seen people so scared to fight for themselves in my life as the citizens of that country. They knew what they had to go back to and never put up a fight even though they had weapons and plenty of reasons to fight. If nothing else Im surprised the women didnt fight as they had more to lose. They almost all just surrendered and then they went to the airport to try to leave.
That said, how would we ever have had an exit strategy that didnt involve the Taliban or similar from just taking over again? Another 20 years of occupation?
Im glad we're out but I really feel bad for those in this country (and allies) who fought for every square inch of real estate in that craphole with blood and lives only to let it go back to where it started. I dont know the answer to it.
That said, how would we ever have had an exit strategy that didnt involve the Taliban or similar from just taking over again? Another 20 years of occupation?
Im glad we're out but I really feel bad for those in this country (and allies) who fought for every square inch of real estate in that craphole with blood and lives only to let it go back to where it started. I dont know the answer to it.
- tsb
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How did the withdrawal go so badly ? A woke General staff and a piss poor State department. A Washington elite that are used to doing nothing and getting a big paycheck. Other than that, I have no idea.
- franpipeman
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the nations that the USA built after WW2 where nations of a similar culture. The middle eastern countries culture is tremendously different than ours. We didnt know the end game when we entered and it morphed into nation building except we were hoping for our version of a nation and its Apparent the Afghans dont embrace that version. We have failed.Each administration would prefer not to withdraw on their watch as it is distasteful , messy ,horrific and ugly. It takes courage to admit one was not successful.
- Richard S.
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It seems the consensus from the comments I have heard from ex US military commanders is poor and corrupt government leadership. Even down to the soldiers/security forces themselves. The one story I read is where they armed a police force, they abandoned their post taking their shiny new guns with them so they could set up their own checkpoint elsewhere to shake down travelers. You have to wonder if it has dawned on those people that perhaps that wasn't the greatest idea.
If a population has no faith in government and military leadership it's a lost cause. Especially if you are fighting a motivated force driven by an unwavering religious ideology.
- freetown fred
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That's pretty much been goin on since Korea Scott!!
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When a population regards its government as an alien occupying force it will eventually rebel against it.
The old Soviet Union had 70 years, yet still cracked into more pieces than the old Tsarist government had.
We understand more about the behavior of our pets than our own species.
Mexico lost Texas because it was settled with aliens.
The old Soviet Union had 70 years, yet still cracked into more pieces than the old Tsarist government had.
We understand more about the behavior of our pets than our own species.
Mexico lost Texas because it was settled with aliens.
- johnjoseph
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Goals and objectives of obtainable tasks. It's not as simple as it sounds, but like anything, it should be realistically attainable. My drill instructor ensured we knew the following: prior planing prevents piss poor performance. I have subscribed to the following website:
Warontherocks.com
I may not agree with all they offer, but some I do. Just a different perspective.
The art of exiting war
https://warontherocks.com/2019/10/the-lost-art-of ... ing-a-war/
- warminmn
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That link is some deep thinking about having an exit strategy! Among other topics too.johnjoseph wrote: ↑Tue. Aug. 17, 2021 10:22 amGoals and objectives of obtainable tasks. It's not as simple as it sounds, but like anything, it should be realistically attainable. My drill instructor ensured we knew the following: prior planing prevents piss poor performance. I have subscribed to the following website:
Warontherocks.com
I may not agree with all they offer, but some I do. Just a different perspective.
The art of exiting war
https://warontherocks.com/2019/10/the-lost-art-of ... ing-a-war/
- warminmn
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Ive worked with a few vets from the last 20 years of conflict but didnt talk to them much about their experiences unless they brought it up but I didnt dig them with questions much. One of my friends was in Desert Storm and didnt have a very high opinion of any of the people there. It was pretty much just nuke them.Richard S. wrote: ↑Tue. Aug. 17, 2021 9:07 amIt seems the consensus from the comments I have heard from ex US military commanders is poor and corrupt government leadership. Even down to the soldiers/security forces themselves. The one story I read is where they armed a police force, they abandoned their post taking their shiny new guns with them so they could set up their own checkpoint elsewhere to shake down travelers. You have to wonder if it has dawned on those people that perhaps that wasn't the greatest idea.
If a population has no faith in government and military leadership it's a lost cause. Especially if you are fighting a motivated force driven by an unwavering religious ideology.
- anthony7812
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Other than what we see in msm, it’s hard to gauge. Obviously it looks like a crap show, but what part of the exit plan failed? It sounds like zero input was taken from any military leadership by our president. Then again our military leadership has advised us to stay for 20 years… lost a few high school friends in Middle East since 05. I see it in the corporate world, too much asskissen and glory stealin to get higher got us here. I’ve even heard senior managers in prior business say” fake it until ya make it”. Sad really.
- johnjoseph
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CNO planned training exercises most likely...yearly exercise usually with some years bigger than others. Pacific and Atlantic fleet training exercise every year with allied countries. My guess is this years exercise involved max attack scenerios. Only guessing though, it's been 30 years since my last one.