Sub-Metering Gas and Water and Other Landlord Questions

 
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Richard S.
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Post by Richard S. » Thu. May. 02, 2019 10:31 am

I'm going to be moving into my Grandmother's house permanently which will now be my house. Wish I had known this 4 years ago because the coal boiler would still be there but I'm not ripping out a brand new gas boiler either. I was actually a bit reluctant because it needs a lot of work. This is a very old house, the main part was actually a barn and the supports for first floor is hand hewn logs. There is no joists for that section. It's been added onto ever since.... It's not anything particularly wrong with it but anything I go to do is going to be a lot of work.

The upside is that it's duplex and there are two very large back rooms I'm going to turn into a small apartment for myself. I'll be able to rent both sides which are 6 rooms each which will easily cover expenses and provide me with income to put back into the house. Windows (24 of them), new doors, going to need a roof soon etc. . Last major renovations on either side was shortly before I was born but everything is in excellent shape on the interior and almost immediately can be rented. The plan is to rent them out until it needs full renovation and tear everything down to the studs... perhaps 10 years form now or whatever.

One of the issues is the water and gas is one meter. It appears I can sub-meter both as long as I'm only passing the costs onto the tenant. Anybody else doing this?

Generally speaking if anyone has any advice that has been a landlord before I'd appreciate it.


 
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Post by grumpy » Thu. May. 02, 2019 5:40 pm

Seem a lot out there..until someone chimes in..

https://www.bing.com/search?q=how+to+submeter+uti ... orm=MOZSBR

 
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Post by Rob R. » Thu. May. 02, 2019 9:16 pm

I am not sure what you mean by sub-meter?

 
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Post by CapeCoaler » Thu. May. 02, 2019 9:36 pm

So you will need three sub meters for each utility...
Two for the tenant units and one for the landlord unit...
What are you doing for electric...
You will need three meters...
Why sub meters and not 3 regular utility meters...
Water, gas and electric will have to be separated 3 ways in either scenario...
Or just leave it as is and include the utilities in the monthly rent...
Yes been a landlord for 15 years...
I can tell you the horror stories and the blessings...

 
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Richard S.
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Post by Richard S. » Thu. May. 02, 2019 9:57 pm

CapeCoaler wrote:
Thu. May. 02, 2019 9:36 pm
What are you doing for electric...
There is already two metered panels and I'm putting in another one. Won't be difficult at all to separate the electric with new meter because I can locate the new panel near the one with most of the existing wiring for the two rooms I'll be renovating.

If I submeter the gas and water I only have to buy the meters, do some minor replumbing and extend the existing gas line a little. There would be a lot of expense otherwise besides what the gas and water companies are going to charge.
Or just leave it as is and include the utilities in the monthly rent...
I realize that but I don't want to get screwed. If they aren't seeing itemized bill many will take advantage.

 
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Post by Rob R. » Fri. May. 03, 2019 6:26 am

Check your local codes and see if there is anything about what things can be billed to the tenants, and what is prohibited. In some areas lighting in common areas or outside is not supposed to be charged to the tenants - same with heat in the basement.

Are you planning to install separate gas boilers for each unit?

 
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Post by coaledsweat » Fri. May. 03, 2019 6:40 am

The lease must spell out the utilities the tenant is responsible for or the landlord pays. You need to know that little tidbit.


 
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Post by Richard S. » Fri. May. 03, 2019 8:11 am

Rob R. wrote:
Fri. May. 03, 2019 6:26 am
Check your local codes and see if there is anything about what things can be billed to the tenants, and what is prohibited.
I have but nothing concrete, I'm hoping someone in PA was already doing this. It appears I can as long as I'm only charging them what it costs me, common fee like connection fee I'll pay and just pass the cost per gallon onto them. This would actually save them money because they would be paying the connection fee. What I haven't found is anything on what type meter, e.g. does it need some kind of certification?
In some areas lighting in common areas or outside is not supposed to be charged to the tenants - same with heat in the basement.

Are you planning to install separate gas boilers for each unit?
The only common area is going to be the basement, I'll have to put that on my panel. The boiler is already oversized so I'll eat the heating bill for the whole house. I will be hooking their pumps to their own panel. :D I'm going to have to add a zone for my section and it's still has the old relays as in 60's old so I'm just going to replace them.

The plumbing will not be difficult, everything for both upstairs and downstairs on all thhree units are no more than ten feet apart total.

 
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Post by CapeCoaler » Fri. May. 03, 2019 9:14 am

Electric meter needs to be in common place...
If the FD comes they need to kill power at one location...
That requires the meters to be in a gang where the power drop is...
Check code about the circulators being on different panels...
With a common control wire...
We have a decent landlord group here on The Cape...
They have speakers and a good resource of local issues and policy...
Check on the contract law of deposits in your area...
How the deposit is handled...
First, last and one month security is standard here...
The tenants are well protected in this state...
So you need to follow tenant/landlord rules very closely...
Or tenant gets treble damages...
A statute permits a court to triple the amount of the actual/compensatory damages to be awarded to a prevailing plaintiff...
Know the eviction process and notification rules...
Your tenant does and will use it against you if you get a bad tenant...
I think PA favors the landlord more than MA does...
But remember above all remember the golden rule...
A good tenant is priceless...
But the rent is due when it is due no exceptions...
Begin the eviction process immediately or it will bite you in the ass...
A bad tenant will use the law and courts to their advantage...
Have a lawyer who is well versed in evictions...
I was fortunate...
My lawyer did the evictions for the largest landlord on The Cape...
Was well liked in the court as he was fair but firm...
It still took 10 month to evict my tenant from hell...
Never got the rent...
Spent 2k on legal fees and another 3k to move and store the deadbeats stuff...
I got off cheap as the sheriff that did the eviction was a family friend...
Hard lesson learned...

 
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Post by CapeCoaler » Fri. May. 03, 2019 9:19 am

You won't eat the heating bill...
It gets factored into the rent...
If it cost say $250 per month to heat...
$125 is factored into the rent for each side...
How is the DHW heated...
Tenants are smart they know if the rent is fair with heat included...
Don't forget to split up the other utilities...
Home run the cable and phone to the area where the electric drops...

 
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Post by Richard S. » Fri. May. 03, 2019 9:32 am

CapeCoaler wrote:
Fri. May. 03, 2019 9:14 am
That requires the meters to be in a gang where the power drop is...
They are already on separate sides of the house. It's duplex and I'm pretty sure that is fairly common.
You won't eat the heating bill...
It gets factored into the rent...
I didn't mean it in the sense I'd be paying for it but I'll have to pay that bill myself since there is no way to split it.
How is the DHW heated...
Right now I only have single 40 gallon gas hot water heater, minimally I'm going to need another one. Might as well install two and set the submetering up since I'll need to run gas and plumbing anyway.

 
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Post by LeoinRI » Sat. May. 11, 2019 7:19 am

I will add to be careful of prospective tenant using a false ID to hide poor credit/criminal activity. Take recommendation of previous landlord with a grain of salt. He may write anything to get rid of a bad tenant. Do a google search on applicants: you may find a video of them self-injecting while naked, or driving 120 MPH over the Newport Bridge. Been there.
Leo

 
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Post by CapeCoaler » Sat. May. 11, 2019 9:50 am

If you are friendly with the local PD...
You can have them run a background check...
Picture of their ID and a picture with your cell phone...
Of course the rental application would give you permission to do so...
Best tenant I had came from a customer of mine who was an employee there...

 
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Post by k-2 » Sat. May. 11, 2019 10:09 am

Remember if they stop paying you,you will on the hook for their utilities as well. You CANT shut them off, even if they dont pay you,but the utility can shut them off for non payment. Thats the benefit of separate utilities for each unit. Iv seen that happen alot.

 
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Post by Richard S. » Mon. May. 13, 2019 5:28 am

k-2 wrote:
Sat. May. 11, 2019 10:09 am
Remember if they stop paying you,you will on the hook for their utilities as well. You CANT shut them off, even if they dont pay you,but the utility can shut them off for non payment.
I'm already installing separate panel for myself however the gas is off the table because it's single boiler. Haven't checked into the cost of separate water meters but I'm guessing it's not cheap.


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