Sub-Metering Gas and Water and Other Landlord Questions

 
CapeCoaler
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Post by CapeCoaler » Mon. May. 13, 2019 8:53 am

In MA the landlord was required to provide water...
Tenant only required to pay for electric, heat, phone, cable...

 
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Post by k-2 » Mon. May. 13, 2019 8:59 am

Richard S. wrote:
Mon. May. 13, 2019 5:28 am
I'm already installing separate panel for myself however the gas is off the table because it's single boiler. Haven't checked into the cost of separate water meters but I'm guessing it's not cheap.
You can meter their water with any number of low cost online meters,iv looked into this. If you let the water company do it, its another monthly service fee and
all the associated extra cost of a separate line. But you rnot insulated from paying for an angry tenant on the way out. Even with that though id separate as much as possible. Tenants can become belligerent when they are being kicked out or for any number of reasons and will let the water run ,open the windows and turn the heat up ect just to spite you. You can also put limits on use before additional charges are added. When tenants get "free" water iv seen them have all their friends come by to do laundry.

 
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cArNaGe
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Post by cArNaGe » Mon. May. 13, 2019 2:14 pm

k-2 wrote:
Mon. May. 13, 2019 8:59 am
You can meter their water with any number of low cost online meters,iv looked into this. If you let the water company do it, its another monthly service fee and
all the associated extra cost of a separate line. But you rnot insulated from paying for an angry tenant on the way out. Even with that though id separate as much as possible. Tenants can become belligerent when they are being kicked out or for any number of reasons and will let the water run ,open the windows and turn the heat up ect just to spite you. You can also put limits on use before additional charges are added. When tenants get "free" water iv seen them have all their friends come by to do laundry.
If they abuse the water usage, a 1/4 turn valve to isolate their water could help. Just put a 1/4" or 3/8" bypass so they have some water. :roll:

 
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Richard S.
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Post by Richard S. » Tue. May. 14, 2019 8:03 am

The meters are fairly cheap and I need to redo a lot of plumbing anyway. I need to redo a lot of the plumbing anyway. The 3/4 for the cold splits off at one point not far after the meter supplying everything. The upstairs only has one cold water line etc. I'm going to run 3/4 as trunk and have 1/2 supplies instead.

I could split everything but the heat but to split the hot water that's going to require 3 more hot water heaters. The one I have now may actually be sufficient. I turned it up to max and took a shower for at least 45 minutes and the hot water was still going strong. Of course I'd have to put a mixing valve on it. If I leave as worse case is installing just one.

I probably should just do this right from the start and install separate hot water heaters etc. If I'm going to do that I need to do it now because the plumbing changes substantially... Decisions, decisions, decisions

The other thing I need to figure out is if the gas is large enough to supply all this. I have 1 inch pipe from the meter but I'm not sure of the pressure. The boiler is huge at 260K or something like that. I'd have to supply 2 more hot water heaters and I'd like to also add 3 outlets for stoves. At the very least I want gas stove in my section but adding them for the tenants gives me advantage. Even being able to add them for the dryers would be helpful.... I need to find out what the pressure is and go from there.

Not sure but can they increase pressure if needed? Is it just what it is or what? I know nothing about this new fangled gas stuff other than it's hell of lot cheaper than electric. ;)


 
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Post by Rob R. » Tue. May. 14, 2019 8:24 am

Adding a mixing valve to the existing water heater is a good idea regardless - code requires that the water not exceed 120F at the tap. Plus with a mixing valve you can increase the storage temperature of the water heater. If that turns out to still be short of the capacity you need, you could always add an indirect water heat to that monster boiler. If done properly that would provide unlimited hot water for the entire house.

 
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Post by Richard S. » Tue. May. 14, 2019 9:19 am

Rob R. wrote:
Tue. May. 14, 2019 8:24 am
Adding a mixing valve to the existing water heater is a good idea regardless - code requires that the water not exceed 120F at the tap.
The dial has setting for 120 and that's where I keep it. I only turned it up to see how long it would last if it was maxed out, of course I wasn't taking a shower in 160 degree water or whatever it is. I'm guessing you can get hot water for at least an hour especially with low flow shower heads.

I'm leaning towards just installing seperate hot water heaters so it may be irrelevant.
you could always add an indirect water heat to that monster boiler
If you may recall this boiler is designed to have no lo setting, the water temp can drop to ambient room temp and if you you try and set the lo the fancy electronic aquastat will not allow anything above 120. It heats water ridiculously fast on call for heat. I haven't dug into the technical aspects of the aquastat but I will. I need to get new relays and set up a third zone. Beyond that I'm not messing with it, I'll get hot water heaters if I need them.

 
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Post by CapeCoaler » Wed. May. 15, 2019 12:17 am

That would be a cold start boiler...
Indirect DHW as a zone or three...
If you are doing the plumbing work already set the pipes for 3 independent feeds...
You could still feed the 3 independent tenants through the single heater for now...
Set it up like primary secondary heat...

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