Going Solar

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davidmcbeth3
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Post by davidmcbeth3 » Fri. Jun. 23, 2023 12:17 pm

ColdHouse wrote:
Fri. Jun. 23, 2023 3:08 am
your information is not up to date: Here is the way it works. https://www.eversource.com/content/residential/sa ... incentives
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The two eversource web pages are from eversource web site within 12 hrs of each other. They do not appear to conflict. :angel:

You get CREDITS, not actual $$$. If you have a properly or perfectly sized PV system then you bank credits in summer during higher production and use the credits in winter. Ideally at end of cycle year you have very little credit left in your account.

That person you posted that has $900 in credits is never gonna see a CHECK for actual $$$ ever for that $900. It looks like that person got too big a PV system and is now producing free electricty for eversource.

Eversource is like an illegal alien getting free stuff from hardworking CT folks.


 
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Post by davidmcbeth3 » Fri. Jun. 23, 2023 12:27 pm

ColdHouse wrote:
Fri. Jun. 23, 2023 3:10 am
@davidmcbeth3 FWIW, I am not trying to convince you to get solar.
If you don't want to know how it actually works then vacate the thread and be happy that CT electricity is so inexpensive.
I've looked into solar....getting records from DEEP etc looking into the issue in close detail.

I decided against it. 5 yr ROI is my max. for such a system. Others might be OK with 10-30 yr ROI.

Now I know how eversource gets free electricity (but look, you have a credit, kek)

 
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Post by ColdHouse » Fri. Jun. 23, 2023 2:16 pm

Any excess credit is cashed out when you stop service.

 
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Post by davidmcbeth3 » Fri. Jun. 23, 2023 3:38 pm

ColdHouse wrote:
Fri. Jun. 23, 2023 2:16 pm
Any excess credit is cashed out when you stop service.
That's what it says .. so if you move I suppose. But then what exactly do you get? The one page says 600 kwh is what can be transferred. That would be a hundred to 300 bucks?

Its a shame eversource does not have a business office one can visit in our state where one can put questions to them on camera. I'd be there asking them questions.

 
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Post by ColdHouse » Fri. Jun. 23, 2023 7:18 pm

davidmcbeth3 wrote:
Fri. Jun. 23, 2023 3:38 pm
That's what it says .. so if you move I suppose. But then what exactly do you get? The one page says 600 kwh is what can be transferred. That would be a hundred to 300 bucks?

Its a shame eversource does not have a business office one can visit in our state where one can put questions to them on camera. I'd be there asking them questions.
No. That is not what it says. Once again you are looking at the old plan.
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In my case that is irrelevant. I will not have any huge surplus. I have been using 15-18kwh for years.
As mentioned way earlier in the thread, I can use more electricity if I want to. I have two heat pumps and the house was built with electric heat in each room and who knows maybe one day I will get an electric vehicle. But forget about the EV. My guess is I will be getting just about what I need per year from the solar.
As you can see the payment is total retail cost including all charges.
You keep talking ROI of 5 years. That is a 14.4% return on investment. Great investing! Maybe you can share where I can get a guaranteed 14.4%.
Think what you want but historically electricity keeps going up. So my guess is that what I pay now is less than what I would be paying in 5, 10, 15, and 20 years. But forget about speculating about price increase. Let's just go with what you pay per kwh in CT all in with all charges. What is that number? My guess is $0.265 per kwh if you get discounted supplier. So let's assume that my system gives me 16,500kwh per year that = $4372.5 per year. Also there is more credit for all energy produced at couple cents per kwh but let's forget that. After tax credit I am in for $37,520. So if rates never increase the system would have paid for itself in 8.58 years.
Obviously if kwh is more than $0.265 or production and or usage is more than 16,500kwh, the payoff would be realized sooner.
Last thing I am worried about is not using all the electricity I generate. I could use it to heat my home in fall, spring, and or winter.
As mentioned before, I am not trying to convince you or anyone to put in solar or that it is a good idea. But, you are getting first hand real life knowledge of what is taking place and how it works and what production is realized. If that doesn't interest you then I have no issue with that.
This system and work is not Bull Shcite. It actually is installed on my home and up and running. If I didn't have it, I would find this information valuable.

 
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Post by ColdHouse » Fri. Jun. 23, 2023 7:26 pm

Today was the worst day of solar production so far. Overcast all day and barely any sun if any. The last few days were some degree of cloudy. I expect Jan and Feb to be the worst. I think the best months are already behind me and I missed them.
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As mentioned the first day the system wasn't even turned on until late morning.
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My guess is the next few days will even be worse than today because it is supposed to be cloudy and raining for the foreseeable future.
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It will be interesting to see how the panels perform on rainy days.

 
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Post by davidmcbeth3 » Fri. Jun. 23, 2023 7:31 pm

$37,000 is a chunk of change ... not as bad as my neighbor. paid $65K for a Tesla system 2 yrs ago...I forget his PV size.

37K/5 yrs = $616 a month .. my electrical bills are less than 1/2 of that ... so I would pass on the PV system. People are free to say "In 15ys....it will pay for itself" and be happy.

People do many things I would not...and I do things many others would not.

I'm not a democrat where when I don't want something then I think it should be outlawed.

Maybe we should buy coal fueled generators and sell the electricity to eversource. My coal generator identifies as a PV system


 
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Post by ColdHouse » Fri. Jun. 23, 2023 8:01 pm

BigBarney wrote:
Fri. Jun. 23, 2023 11:46 am
Coldhouse:

How do you heat your water?

Do you have an ev ? Or a battery system?

Using the excess energy onsite is much better than selling...

BigBarney
How do you figure using the energy onsite is better than selling?
Batteries are very expensive. My grid is very reliable. If that changes I might consider batteries or simply add what is necessary to make my panels active when the sun is shining and the grid is down. That is doable with the Enphase IQ8 micro inverters.
Basically the utility company is my battery and I don't need one. I have had a standby generator for years that is capable of running dedicated circuits if the need arises.
I heat my water with an electric hybrid heat pump water heater.
No EV at the time.
My guess is my system will produce pretty much what I use. Not too much excess. If I have extra, I can always use it to heat in fall, winter and or spring.

 
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Post by ColdHouse » Fri. Jun. 23, 2023 8:03 pm

davidmcbeth3 wrote:
Fri. Jun. 23, 2023 7:31 pm
$37,000 is a chunk of change ... not as bad as my neighbor. paid $65K for a Tesla system 2 yrs ago...I forget his PV size.

37K/5 yrs = $616 a month .. my electrical bills are less than 1/2 of that ... so I would pass on the PV system. People are free to say "In 15ys....it will pay for itself" and be happy.

People do many things I would not...and I do things many others would not.

I'm not a democrat where when I don't want something then I think it should be outlawed.

Maybe we should buy coal fueled generators and sell the electricity to eversource. My coal generator identifies as a PV system
I am still waiting for your tip on where I can invest at guaranteed 14.4%.
And you seem pretty smart. Why do you keep saying 15 years.... Do the math. You know what electricity in CT costs and you know what my system costs. The only question is how much energy my system will supply and as mentioned, I can use any and all it does supply.
Where do you invest and get guaranteed ROI of 5years.

 
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Post by warminmn » Fri. Jun. 23, 2023 8:22 pm

David, its about more than money. thats a big part but, he knows he will have power even if the grid goes down for weeks or longer. Theres a fun factor too. Several people here seem to be happy with their setups. Its their money. At least they arent wasting money on Bears souvineers and woodchippers :lol:

Have at it CH. Its not what I'd do but I get it. I will await results in a year so it can all be leveled out. I would never use that much power but if I was producing it I'd be looking for new ways too use it too.

 
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Post by davidmcbeth3 » Sat. Jun. 24, 2023 12:27 am

warminmn wrote:
Fri. Jun. 23, 2023 8:22 pm
SNIP Bears souvineers and woodchippers
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Soooouvieneers and chippers ....

 
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Post by ColdHouse » Sat. Jun. 24, 2023 6:05 am

Something I determined years ago that needs to be considered is that savings and work I do for myself are not taxed.

The money I need to pay my utility company is money I had to earn and pay tax on. When I don't have to pay the utility I don't need to earn the income thus I don't have to pay tax.

Ripping off the old roof and replacing it could easily cost $20,000. I had to earn the entire $20,000 and probably pay payroll taxes, SS& Medicare, Federal Income tax, State Income taxes which in CT is 5%. So a person in the low 15% tax bracket pays 15 to the fed, 5% to the state, and over 7% in SS and Medicare for a grand total of 22.5%. Let's say all materials cost $6500. The remaining $13,500 was labor. I paid sales tax on the $6500 when I purchased materials. Had I hired someone to do the roof, I would have paid sales tax on the entire cost of the roof. In CT the sales tax is 6.35%. Sales tax on 13,500 = $857.25

So to pay for that $20,000 roof installed by someone else, the first thing is sales tax raises the price to $21,270.
$27,445 would need to be earned and taxed to be able to pay $21,270 for a $20,000 roof. Since the rabbit hole has been explored, we must also consider the cost of working. Clothing, travel, time to get to the workplace....

I like to say that when I go out to eat, I could have the same meal at home for the mere cost of tax and tip. It just dawned on me that the material for my roof was equal to the cost of taxes required to hire and pay someone else to do the roof.

My Grandfather used to always say a penny saved is a penny earned. Well he was wrong. A penny saved is worth way more than a penny.

It goes the same way for investments too. If the return on your investments are taxed you need to deduct that tax from the return to compute your net gain.

If I took $38,000 and invested it, I would be required to pay tax on any gain. I will never pay tax on the savings from the solar.

I went to LPN nursing school at 47. Never opened a book and got straight A's. I worked in a nursing home. My two youngest kids were getting out of high school and into college. These days the government is into college. All parents are required to fill out FAFSA paperwork and the schools and government determine what you will pay towards your child/children's education. After a cursory glance at the money we were making and the parents financial burden to send the kids to college, I quit my job. Our financial obligation/burden went down over $30,000 per year and instead of having to earn all that money and pay all the taxes associated with earning it and having the overall cost of college be more, the kids then qualified for Pell grants. WTF was I working for? We had more net disposable income without me working. All my income was going to income taxes and college tuition obligations. Believe it or not, my youngest son had full tuition scholarship to RPI in Troy NY. Full tuition doesn't cover room, board, or books. The parents obligation to send him to that school as a Freshman with full scholarship was $26,000. Screw that shite. He was top of his high school class and scored perfect 800 on his Math SATS. He had a boatload of AP classes already taken in HS. He went to RPI and after 4 years had an electrical engineering degree. He stayed a fifth and left with a masters of tax. After graduation he lived here with us for over 2 years and last year he purchased the two family home we renovated and owned for years. He turns 26 next month and has over $250,000 net assets. He plans to retire after working 10 years.

Sealing the decision on quitting work regarding that whole college expense thing was simple after calculating in the cost of sending our youngest daughter and the aforementioned son to college at the same time. She got scholarships and attended UCONN. She also had over a year of college out of the way from AP classes in HS. Heck she took Algebra in 7th grade, Geometry in 8th, and all AP classes throughout HS. She acquired a chemical engineer degree and has been working for last couple years. Unfortunately she hasn't adapted the same financial principles as my son so she will never achieve his financial status.

So point is saving money has a very good ROI and it can be shortsighted to not consider all the benefits.

 
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Post by nut » Sat. Jun. 24, 2023 8:26 am

The trouble with all assistance programs is they remove incentive to work no matter how well intentioned they were. I saw it with college kids that worked summer jobs. Working too much just took away from their aid. Obama care , the same thing. All public programs come up against a point where it doesn't pay to work harder or longer. People that save for their kid's college are penalized for saving. Working overtime puts you into a higher tax bracket or disqualifies you for tax credits. The system is rigged to keep working stiffs in a certain catch 22. We are all basically wage slaves.

 
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Post by Hootyburra » Sat. Jun. 24, 2023 8:26 am

I didn't go solar strictly to save money, it was more about the independence and reassurance I will have power when the grid goes down, which it does frequently in my area.
I did it for the peace of mind that I can be away for an extended period and my stoker will keep burning or my mini split will keep running and that all the beef, chicken, and pork will stay frozen. The convenience factor that I can have my garage door open when I hit the opener button when I pull in my driveway, that the lights will come on when I flip the switch.
If I wanted to save money I wouldn't have spent $4,500 building my battery banks with plans to double them by next year. I would have put all that money towards more panels and sold back to the grid...

 
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Post by ColdHouse » Sat. Jul. 08, 2023 2:12 am

I didn't go solar strictly to save money. I went solar so that I could have some control over cost of utilities.

I only have 19 days of data since system turned on. Many of those days have been mostly cloudy or overcast. One day was rain almost all day. I don't know all the specifics of my energy consumption. I like the enphase app that shows how much energy is being used NOW. I have determined that my dehumidifier in the basement is 500 watts because if it happens to shut off which it hardly ever does, the wattage consumption goes down .5kwh and as soon as it kicks back on it goes back up .5kwh. With the dehumidifier running this house is consuming about 1.25kwh while sleeping. In other words when everyone is asleep or house is empty during the day it is consuming 1.25kwh. As mentioned the dehumidifier is accounting for .5kwh and we have 3 refrigerators running that I am sure pretty much account for the other .75kwh. I don't know how we could function with less fridge/freezer space. We have a quarter cow in one freezer and that fridge is stuffed with overflow supplies that don't fit in the kitchen fridge. The kitchen fridge is usually full and its freezer has sausages, and fish and other frozen supplies. The basement freezer is also packed with some of the cow, and other stuff. That fridge is pretty much empty. All in all there is a balance between cost to run refrigerators and the benefit of what they store. Without storage I wouldn't be able to have purchased that quarter cow. We shop at BJ warehouse and coupon shop. When things we consume are on sale we purchase for future consumption and until the next sale. Without the refrigerators we would spend more on our food and it would be more work/trips to the store to have food to prepare.

There is no need to run dehumidifier in late fall, winter, early spring so during heating season that .5kwh will not be consumed by that appliance.

We have the hybrid electric water heater and when running in heat pump mode doesn't change the consumption on the app. It is like turning off a lamp with an LED bulb. It doesn't change the amount being consumed on the app.


Over the full 19 days we produced 58.27kwh per day. We consumed 38.37kwh per day.

Obviously this is premium time of year for solar energy production. I am confident that December and January will not yield the production we are getting now. However, I am hopeful because on very overcast rainy days we almost produced enough energy to cover consumption. So that makes me think that on nice days of the worst months we will probably produce close to what we consume.

I figure there is enough solar to charge the new Tesla we will be picking up later today.
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