Advice on a Submersible Well Pump

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Lightning
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Post by Lightning » Sun. Oct. 17, 2021 4:34 pm

So I want to replace my shallow well jet pump with a Submersible. My current jet pump is on its last leg, I had to lower the pressure to get it to kick off. A sure sign that cavitation has taken its toll on the pumping mechanism. This is my 3rd jet pump in the 27 years I've lived here. I've done the YouTube and googling to research installation. Seems pretty straight forward. I have water at about 16 ft and I haven't yet measured to the bottom of the well. Just wondering what brand of submersible to get that won't break the bank. I see home Depot has an "Everbuilt" 3/4 horse 220 volt model for $419. Any pro tips and/or advice would be most appreciated. I'm confident that I can handle the installation myself instead of hiring it done.

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Rob R.
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Post by Rob R. » Sun. Oct. 17, 2021 7:33 pm

Normally a 3/4hp pump is used in wells about 300ft deep. A 1/2hp will be plenty for you.

Do you already have power run to the well?

 
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Post by warminmn » Sun. Oct. 17, 2021 8:07 pm

I have a 3/4hp that I installed. It pumps a lot of water fast. Too fast. Twice it turned muddy as it was pumping so much water out that another source of water entered my well when the level dropped. Point being, I agree with Rob. Unless that is what is on there now.

Myself I'd keep the jet pump because of ease of replacing. Pulling up a submersible is no fun if its down below 70 feet. But I do know there are reasons to switch.

Mines a Seimens(sp) and I havent had any problems with it working in 10 years but unsure how good they are supposed to be. It down 72 feet and my well is at least 140 feet deep. Thats the height the previous pump was at so I just copied it.

When you check the depth be careful. If I ever do it again I'll put a weight on a short lightweight fishing line then attach that to a heavy line so if it gets caught I can just pull and break it off close to the weight... I had my single strings weight get caught on something and I had a real hard time getting it free is why.

 
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Post by Rob R. » Sun. Oct. 17, 2021 8:12 pm

There is more to it than many people realize. Different pumps with the same HP motor can pump different volumes and from different depths. You also have to size the pressure tank according to the pump flow rate so it runs for a minimum amount of time.

It would certainly be a lot cheaper to make a sound-reducing enclosure for the jet pump.

 
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Post by ziggy87 » Sun. Oct. 17, 2021 9:05 pm

I am not sure about those ever built pumps. I like Gould’s personally but they are expensive. I have put in 4-5 pentair well pumps in and have no issues with any of them yet. Oldest one being in 10 years or so. They are a good middle of the road pump.
You need to make sure you have your well tank sized properly for the gpm of the house. You don’t want the pump to short cycle.
As for installation, you well need to install a torque arrester about one - two feet above the pump and it will need to be pushed together so that is about the size of the well. Be sure it use electrical tape on the hose clamps or anywhere the wire could rub. Also double hose clamp all joints!

 
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Post by CoalisCoolxWarm » Sun. Oct. 17, 2021 10:41 pm

IMHO one of the biggest considerations for a submersible is how to get it pulled up if you have a problem or even a partial collapse or some debris falls down it.

A non-corroding heavy cable that can take substantial force and well attached (pun!) to the pump can save your well should the unthinkable happen. Don't count on just the line to pull it up.

2 years ago a friend of mine had this problem. In his area it isn't just about the cost of drilling a new well, but the sulfur and iron due to coal veins around here can make a well unusable. He was fortunate but went through the "ideal" and "smart" things to try with a well driller/expert and was down to the "give 'er heck and hope for the best"

It was a real concern for a few weeks, hauling water for the cattle, etc.

The next thing to think about is your expectations and plans for water during a power outage. Larger pumps require more power.

Remember to install a vent line, which you probably already have in your well.

Corrosion resistance is really important for the pump and all the hardware and connections.

As for brand, it's been a long time since I bought a submersible pump. In the early 90's. Had several since then, but I couldn't offer much in the way of brand. Hopefully someone else can offer suggestions.

Hope this helps.

 
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Post by Lightning » Mon. Oct. 18, 2021 8:31 pm

I have not yet ran any wires, I'm still in the "gathering" of information about the project. Rob has a point about the noise also, it's the main reason I'd like to install a sub vs another jet pump. Like a few of you advised, I also saw on videos regarding the torque arrestor and to use electric tape to keep the wires away from the well casing because of abrasion. Useage of double SS clamps is a must. Thank you for all the great tips! Some very helpful suggestions here, I really appreciate it.

As far as sizing the pump, I read that you should have a minimum run time of 1 minute. Since my drawdown on the well tank is 5-6 gallons then it makes sense to use a pump that delivers 5-6 gallons per minute.

I also measured the well today. Water at 19ft 8in. Water depth is 12 ft. Overall well depth top to bottom is about 32ft.

I like the Gould's pumps. Pricey but built to last a long time. A half horse, 120 volt should be plenty since not much static pressure from 20ft head, relatively speaking.


 
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Post by Lightning » Mon. Oct. 18, 2021 9:34 pm

CoalisCoolxWarm wrote:
Sun. Oct. 17, 2021 10:41 pm
The next thing to think about is your expectations and plans for water during a power outage. Larger pumps require more power.

Remember to install a vent line, which you probably already have in your well.
My backup Genny should be able to handle it.

Not sure about the vent line? I haven't ran across anything about that yet.

 
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Post by CoalisCoolxWarm » Mon. Oct. 18, 2021 11:09 pm

Lightning wrote:
Mon. Oct. 18, 2021 9:34 pm
My backup Genny should be able to handle it.

Not sure about the vent line? I haven't ran across anything about that yet.
If you are going to a submersible vs jet pumps, it may be needed. Here's a short bit of info, geared mostly towards codes and inspections, that may be useful.

https://inspectapedia.com/water/Well_Casing_Cap.php

You'll have to decide and maybe talk to someone who inspects or knows your well?

We had used ours to shock monthly with a little chlorine as well as a vent.

 
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Post by Rob R. » Tue. Oct. 19, 2021 6:36 am

Lightning wrote:
Mon. Oct. 18, 2021 8:31 pm
I have not yet ran any wires, I'm still in the "gathering" of information about the project. Rob has a point about the noise also, it's the main reason I'd like to install a sub vs another jet pump. Like a few of you advised, I also saw on videos regarding the torque arrestor and to use electric tape to keep the wires away from the well casing because of abrasion. Useage of double SS clamps is a must. Thank you for all the great tips! Some very helpful suggestions here, I really appreciate it.

As far as sizing the pump, I read that you should have a minimum run time of 1 minute. Since my drawdown on the well tank is 5-6 gallons then it makes sense to use a pump that delivers 5-6 gallons per minute.

I also measured the well today. Water at 19ft 8in. Water depth is 12 ft. Overall well depth top to bottom is about 32ft.

I like the Gould's pumps. Pricey but built to last a long time. A half horse, 120 volt should be plenty since not much static pressure from 20ft head, relatively speaking.
I know you are looking to save money by doing this yourself - but I think it would be good to talk to a local well contractor and get their input. You can still save money by running the power yourself, but the last thing you want is a house with no water or a ruined pump because you made a mistake. Goulds pumps are sold though a dealer network. Having a pro size your pump and do the final install might be less expensive than you think.

Back to picking a pump - You first determine the flow rate required to service the house. Once you have that, you pick a pump that is a good match for that flow rate at your well depth - then you pick a pressure tank that is a match for the pump. I would use a 240v pump.

I added some links below with info about this.

https://www.watersystemscouncil.org/download/well ... _FINAL.pdf

https://oakvillepump.com/blog/2019/6/17/can-i-jus ... in-my-well

 
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Post by Lightning » Tue. Oct. 19, 2021 10:09 pm

Thank you Rob. There are so many ways to size a tank to the house demand. Nobody does it the same it seems. A simplified version said to take the number of fixtures times 3. I have 7 fixtures total (counting the hose that is used intermittently) which means a 21 gallon tank, lucky enough, I bought a 20 gallon when my old (much smaller) tank went to heck. My current 20 gallon tank could be bigger for another 3-400 dollars. So I'm hoping to use it. This is why I was trying to size the pump to my tank.

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Post by Lightning » Wed. Oct. 20, 2021 9:39 am

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Post by Lightning » Wed. Oct. 20, 2021 9:57 am

So apparently, there is a 2 wire model and a 3 wire model which requires a control box. What is the function of the control box? And what are the advantages/disadvantages of each?

 
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Post by warminmn » Wed. Oct. 20, 2021 9:59 am

How many GPM is your present pump? You dont want to over pump the water down to your pumps level.

Your well is not deep so the pump will be easy to pull for replacement or problems. Thats a big plus for a DIY project. All I did was follow directions that came with my pump and everything has been fine. Im sure you can handle this after all the boiler stuff you've done. I remember the wiring taking me a while to do but otherwise it wasnt bad.

 
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Post by Rob R. » Wed. Oct. 20, 2021 10:09 am

Lightning wrote:
Wed. Oct. 20, 2021 9:57 am
So apparently, there is a 2 wire model and a 3 wire model which requires a control box. What is the function of the control box? And what are the advantages/disadvantages of each?
Usually the 3 wire units are larger pumps. The starting components are in the control box.

A 1/2hp 2 wire pump is plenty for you.


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