How to get rid of hard water

 
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Rob R.
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Post by Rob R. » Wed. Apr. 11, 2018 8:07 pm

Well, it depends on the level of iron, and what else might be in with it, but a backwashing birm filter system is common solution. There are other options as well, but some are more expensive than others. An experienced water guy would be able to make a recommendation based on your test results.

I have a birm system in my house to treat a small amount of sulfur. It uses air to oxidize the sulfur, and backwashes itself every 3 days.


 
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Post by lsayre » Thu. Apr. 12, 2018 5:11 am

Greensand filters are common in these parts.

https://www.cleanwaterstore.com/resource/frequent ... d-filters/

http://www.glasswatersystems.com/manganese-greens ... ystem.html

I snagged these references in a jiffy. Shop locally or via the internet and you might find better pricing. To size one properly you should know how much water you nominally use, and how much iron it contains,

Birm is also good. I believe Birm is a registered trademark. Similar to the above, but using a different media.

I would ask a local water treatment company to give me a free analysis and consultation. You will potentially be solicited to buy their solution, but if they offer a free consultation, you are not obligated to buy their products.

 
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Post by europachris » Thu. Apr. 12, 2018 4:09 pm

I have a Birm type system along with a standard softener. My water is beyond hard, somewhere north of 25 grains because I get tired of counting the drops... It also has a pretty decent amount of iron, most of which the softener can handle and minimize the staining but having the iron removal unit really makes a nice difference.

Straight out of the well the water tastes like a iron skillet. It's pretty nasty, but after I run it through a Pur pitcher filter it tastes excellent. The aeration oxidizes the iron and the filter takes it out.

I remember once filling up my son's kiddie pool soon after moving in. I filled it in the morning so it would warm up in the sun. I came back that afternoon and was shocked - the water was orange. Yuck.

 
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Post by hotblast1357 » Sun. Nov. 10, 2019 8:20 am

Here’s the water test results from ward lab.

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Post by lsayre » Sun. Nov. 10, 2019 10:42 am

That's softer than many localities water authority provided tap water. But at 0.35 ppm (mg/L) your well waters Iron is very high.

By comparison, my well water is just shy of 9 times harder than yours. My iron is also high at 0.4 ppm (mg/L).

 
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Post by lsayre » Sun. Nov. 10, 2019 10:53 am

Much of the confusion here can be seen within the title to this thread and your subsequent concern regarding orange stains.

Water hardness is not caused by iron. It is caused by calcium and magnesium. You have an iron problem, not a hardness problem.

Some trivia to help you sleep better at night: The deeper the well, the more radioactive the water.

 
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Post by lsayre » Sun. Nov. 10, 2019 11:28 am

For the geeks among us:

In the USA, both magnesium hardness and calcium hardness (both being forms of "permanent hardness") are (for some odd reason) equated to CaCO3, and then lumped together under the term "total hardness as CaCO3". And alkalinity, or temporary hardness, is also oddly measured in units of CaCO3 (though at pH 8.3 all of your waters alkalinity comes from the HCO3- 'bicarbonate' ion species).

The molecular weight of CaCO3 is 100 (rounded), and its charge (or valance) is +2, so its "Equivalent" weight is 100/2 = 50 (rounded).

The molecular weight of HCO3- is 61 (rounded), and its charge (or valence) is abs(-1) = 1. So as to temporary hardness (alkalinity as CaCO3):
61/50 x alkalinity = bicarbonate
50/61 x bicarbonate = alkalinity

As for total hardness (permanent hardness), the molecular weight of Ca is 40 (rounded), and the molecular weight of magnesium is 24.3 (rounded), and both of these ions have a valence of +2, so to equate them to CaCO3 (also with a valence of 2) one simply divides the respective molecular weights.

100/40 ~= 2.5 (for calcium)
100/24.3 ~= 4.12 (for magnesium)

And thus:
Total Hardness as CaCO3 = 2.5(Ca) + 4.12(Mg)

On average roughly 30% of fresh waters total hardness "generally (as in ballpark guess)"comes from magnesium, and 70% of total hardness "generally (as in ballpark guess)" comes from calcium.

Therefore if all you know is your waters total (or permanent) hardness as CaCO3, you can make a ballpark guess as to its calcium and magnesium concentrations as follows:

Ca = (0.70 x Total Hardness)/2.5
Mg = (0.30 x Total Hardness)/4.12

I can now rest my geek hat for the remainder of the day....


 
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Post by lsayre » Sun. Nov. 10, 2019 11:56 am

More trivia:

Ward Labs mainly analyzes water for farmers, and as to "sulfur" all a farmer cares about is "S", and they don't care a hoot about "SO4", or sulfate ion concentration. So when Ward Labs reports SO4-S, this is their shorthand for "sulfur as derived from the sulfate ion". As opposed to sulfur as derived from something else, like 'HS' (hydrogen sulfide, the stuff that makes well water smell like rotten eggs).

The various molecular weights are as follows"

S = 32
O = 16
SO4 = 32 + (4 x 16) = 96

32/96 = 1/3
96/32 = 3

So your sulfate ion concentration is actually 3 x SO4-S, or since your SO4-S is reported as being 4 ppm (mg/L), your sulfate ion concentration is 12 ppm (mg/L).

Guess I couldn't remove my geek hat after all.

 
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Post by CapeCoaler » Sun. Nov. 10, 2019 12:37 pm

Carry on Larry...
Always something to learn...

 
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Post by lsayre » Mon. Nov. 11, 2019 7:47 am

TDS is only precisely measured via a lengthy and difficult process of evaporation and weighing what remains vs. what one started with. There are however two ways to ballpark estimate it.

1) TDS = Na + K + Ca + Mg + Cl + SO4 + Fe + F + "Other ions present" + (Bicarbonate/2)

2) TDS = conductivity in units of 'microsiemens' (uS/cm, or micromho's) times 0.6 (wherein there is some wiggle room associated with the understanding of this 0.6 constant)
(or)
TDS = conductivity in units of 'millisiemens' (also known as millimho's) times 600. (again with some variability on the choice of 600 as the "constant")

It appears that Ward Labs is applying the second method, and using a constant with a slight variation from 600.

TDS meters are therefore conductivity meters with the "constant" built in so you don't need to apply math (multiplication times a constant) to make the leap from conductivity units to ppm (or mg/L) units.

Knowing this, if you have a TDS meter, you can apply the math in reverse to also know the waters conductivity.
Last edited by lsayre on Mon. Nov. 11, 2019 2:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.

 
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Post by lsayre » Mon. Nov. 11, 2019 7:54 am

More trivia:

Chloride is not related to Chlorine. Knowing a waters chloride ppm (mg/L) concentration tells you absolutely nothing with regard to its chlorine concentration (and visa-versa). Well water shouldn't have any chlorine. Water Authorities add chlorine (and/or chloramines) to "city water" as biocides.

 
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Post by lsayre » Mon. Nov. 11, 2019 2:33 pm

A "Mho" of current is the inverse of an "Ohm" of resistance. Ohm spelled backwards is Mho.
Last edited by lsayre on Mon. Nov. 11, 2019 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 
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Post by lsayre » Mon. Nov. 11, 2019 2:36 pm

OK, enough for trivial stuff. What are you intending to do to rid yourself of the orange stains problem?

 
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Post by hotblast1357 » Mon. Nov. 11, 2019 3:00 pm

lsayre wrote:
Mon. Nov. 11, 2019 2:36 pm
OK, enough for trivial stuff. What are you intending to do to rid yourself of the orange stains problem?
Well I’m looking into the system you suggested.

 
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Post by hotblast1357 » Sat. Jan. 30, 2021 5:46 am

Well over a year now, we would like to do something about the high iron, I’ve bought the fancy tools, even shipped my water off to have it tested, but never really got a answer to what will fix it, guess I need to bring some to a local place?


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