vermiculite insulation

Post Reply
 
lincolnmania
Member
Posts: 2684
Joined: Fri. Jan. 26, 2007 9:55 pm
Location: Birdsboro PA.
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 350
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: reading allegheny stoker
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: alaska kodiak stoker 1986. 1987 triburner, 1987 crane diamond
Coal Size/Type: rice

Post by lincolnmania » Sat. Dec. 30, 2017 7:31 pm

my attic has 8" of vermiculite insulation that my dad installed around 1974. i helped him, we hauled it all home in his vw beetle a few bags at a time. he tried rock wool first but it made my mom sick. no one knew that vermiculite had asbestos in it then.
it's the zonolite brand....i found a bag in the attic today getting rid of stuff upstairs......the attic has not been cleaned out since the 70's.

should i hide it or remove it and insulate with fiberglass? there is 1/2" plywood on the floor all but 2' of the end on each side.
i'm not hiring an abatement team (more than a new coal boiler)
i have no plans on selling the house. i need to get at least 30 more years out of it.
how About 2" foam over the entire floor, then covered in plywood. the attic is just storage, no finished walls. that would give me a r29.... (r16 for the vermiculite, r13 for the 2" foam) and the vermiculite would not be blowing around......it is a fully vented attic, i think i really need that extra r value.


 
grumpy
Member
Posts: 12263
Joined: Sat. Jan. 02, 2010 12:28 am

Post by grumpy » Sat. Dec. 30, 2017 7:39 pm

More harm will come if you mess with it.. cover it with foam if you can, photos would help..

 
User avatar
Rob R.
Site Moderator
Posts: 17979
Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
Location: Chazy, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr

Post by Rob R. » Sat. Dec. 30, 2017 8:32 pm

I would not mess with it. 8" of vermiculite is about R16. 2" of rigid foam with taped seams would nearly double the R value.

Does the top floor have any recessed lighting? Pull down set of attic stairs? Those are both typical sources of big air leaks into the attic. I put a "coffin" that sits in the attic over the set of pull down stairs, it has foam along the bottom so it makes a tight seal. Stopped all drafts.

 
lincolnmania
Member
Posts: 2684
Joined: Fri. Jan. 26, 2007 9:55 pm
Location: Birdsboro PA.
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 350
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: reading allegheny stoker
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: alaska kodiak stoker 1986. 1987 triburner, 1987 crane diamond
Coal Size/Type: rice

Post by lincolnmania » Sat. Dec. 30, 2017 10:00 pm

Rob R. wrote:
Sat. Dec. 30, 2017 8:32 pm
I would not mess with it. 8" of vermiculite is about R16. 2" of rigid foam with taped seams would nearly double the R value.

Does the top floor have any recessed lighting? Pull down set of attic stairs? Those are both typical sources of big air leaks into the attic. I put a "coffin" that sits in the attic over the set of pull down stairs, it has foam along the bottom so it makes a tight seal. Stopped all drafts.
the bathroom fan/light. is it, no can lighting. the two ceiling light boxes are sealed pretty well.
the stairs are enclosed, dad had a old hollow core door over the stairwell opening at the top of the steps, there are two sets of stairs, the front set i could not get to until recently. the back set of steps goes to either my room or the attic door. we did that because the attic only has a 5' ceiling at the peak.

 
User avatar
McGiever
Member
Posts: 10130
Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar

Post by McGiever » Sat. Dec. 30, 2017 10:14 pm

By all means do play it safe with old vermiculite insulation.

But, it is still available to purchase even today. IDK, might they now use more discretion as to keep the asbestos out of it? Both are mined minerals BTW.
Good stuff for soil amendment and works good for insulating around terracotta flue liners while laying-up or building a new masonry chimney. :)

 
User avatar
hotblast1357
Member
Posts: 5657
Joined: Mon. Mar. 10, 2014 10:06 pm
Location: Peasleeville NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1984 Eshland S260 coal gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh anthracite pea
Other Heating: air source heat pump, oil furnace

Post by hotblast1357 » Sun. Dec. 31, 2017 7:51 am

I used it in my new chimney I built this summer for the boiler building, bought it at the same place I bought my blocks and tiles.

 
lincolnmania
Member
Posts: 2684
Joined: Fri. Jan. 26, 2007 9:55 pm
Location: Birdsboro PA.
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 350
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: reading allegheny stoker
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: alaska kodiak stoker 1986. 1987 triburner, 1987 crane diamond
Coal Size/Type: rice

Post by lincolnmania » Sun. Dec. 31, 2017 9:35 am

thanks guys!
i will leave it in place and put 2" foam with tapes seams down.
is it ok to screw the foam to the floor?
i think i am only going to put plywood just down the center. the stuff that's stored can sit on cardboard on the foam right?


 
CapeCoaler
Member
Posts: 6515
Joined: Sun. Feb. 10, 2008 3:48 pm
Location: Cape Cod, MA
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Post by CapeCoaler » Sun. Dec. 31, 2017 11:59 pm

Tack it down with foam safe adhesive...
Tape the joints with foam tape...
Might want to bring it to 4"...
This should bring the condensing point to the interior of the foam...
where it can't condense...
Screw the center plywood down with long screws to the ply below...
I know money is a factor here...
the extra 2" of foam will pay back quickly and then save money forever...
Go with 3/8 ply for the storage area, 5/8 for the walk way...

 
User avatar
windyhill4.2
Member
Posts: 6072
Joined: Fri. Nov. 22, 2013 2:17 pm
Location: Jonestown,Pa.17038
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both

Post by windyhill4.2 » Mon. Jan. 01, 2018 8:49 am

2" foil board is R12, double that would be great for the ceiling,can't get too much insulation for the top cap.

 
lincolnmania
Member
Posts: 2684
Joined: Fri. Jan. 26, 2007 9:55 pm
Location: Birdsboro PA.
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 350
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: reading allegheny stoker
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: alaska kodiak stoker 1986. 1987 triburner, 1987 crane diamond
Coal Size/Type: rice

Post by lincolnmania » Tue. Jan. 02, 2018 2:49 pm

i just got 12 sheets of 2" foam....it's not foil board but it's a lot less money......24 a sheet vs 34 a sheet. got it at the local roofing supply company.

 
User avatar
windyhill4.2
Member
Posts: 6072
Joined: Fri. Nov. 22, 2013 2:17 pm
Location: Jonestown,Pa.17038
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both

Post by windyhill4.2 » Tue. Jan. 02, 2018 2:52 pm

lincolnmania wrote:
Tue. Jan. 02, 2018 2:49 pm
i just got 12 sheets of 2" foam....it's not foil board but it's a lot less money......24 a sheet vs 34 a sheet. got it at the local roofing supply company.
It also has less R -rating than the foil on 2 sides has. No vapor barrier either ?

 
lincolnmania
Member
Posts: 2684
Joined: Fri. Jan. 26, 2007 9:55 pm
Location: Birdsboro PA.
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 350
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: reading allegheny stoker
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: alaska kodiak stoker 1986. 1987 triburner, 1987 crane diamond
Coal Size/Type: rice

Post by lincolnmania » Tue. Jan. 02, 2018 3:05 pm

windyhill4.2 wrote:
Tue. Jan. 02, 2018 2:52 pm
It also has less R -rating than the foil on 2 sides has. No vapor barrier either ?
r12.......paper on both sides.

 
User avatar
Sunny Boy
Member
Posts: 25550
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
Location: Central NY
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Post by Sunny Boy » Tue. Jan. 02, 2018 4:36 pm

The vapor barrier doesn't have to be attached to the insulation. You can used plastic drop cloth and overlap the edges a foot. or tape them. Then lay the insulation on top. As long as the plastic forms a vapor barrier between the heated space and the insulation, it works fine.

Paul

 
User avatar
windyhill4.2
Member
Posts: 6072
Joined: Fri. Nov. 22, 2013 2:17 pm
Location: Jonestown,Pa.17038
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both

Post by windyhill4.2 » Tue. Jan. 02, 2018 4:49 pm

lincolnmania wrote:
Tue. Jan. 02, 2018 3:05 pm
r12.......paper on both sides.
Paper ? or foil ?

 
CapeCoaler
Member
Posts: 6515
Joined: Sun. Feb. 10, 2008 3:48 pm
Location: Cape Cod, MA
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Post by CapeCoaler » Tue. Jan. 02, 2018 7:09 pm

you can also paint the ceiling with vapor retarding paint...
but holes are more important to seal...
https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/54110/You-Don ... r-Probably


Post Reply

Return to “House, Gardening & DIY Projects”