Mid-grade gasoline

 
ColdHouse
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Post by ColdHouse » Thu. Feb. 09, 2023 10:06 am

The funny thing about mid-grade is different areas define it differently. I remember in Colorado Regular had an octane of 85, Mid-grade was 87. Here in Connecticut Regular is 87 and mid-grade 89.

I remember hearing that if your car runs fine use the cheapest fuel because it doesn't know the difference.


 
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Post by freetown fred » Thu. Feb. 09, 2023 11:45 am

What's your point? AND, you're right on that.

 
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Post by hank2 » Thu. Feb. 09, 2023 1:20 pm

The lower octane fuel ratings are found in high altitude areas. The running (dynamic) compression ratio of those ICE engines will be lower in those altitudes. I don't think that comes into play below about 5k ft.

 
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Post by ColdHouse » Thu. Feb. 09, 2023 1:26 pm

freetown fred wrote:
Thu. Feb. 09, 2023 11:45 am
What's your point? AND, you're right on that.
I have a couple of used Mercedes and the owners manual calls for 89 or 91. I just burn regular. They run fine. The bigger problem is the freaking ethanol. I think water forms after awhile and I know it destroys gas lines and gums up carburetors on small engines. I always run my small engines out of fuel.

 
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Post by k-2 » Thu. Feb. 09, 2023 1:31 pm

ColdHouse wrote:
Thu. Feb. 09, 2023 1:26 pm
I have a couple of used Mercedes and the owners manual calls for 89 or 91. I just burn regular. They run fine. The bigger problem is the freaking ethanol. I think water forms after awhile and I know it destroys gas lines and gums up carburetors on small engines. I always run my small engines out of fuel.
MY sister almost ruined her mercedes using regular but its a newer model
. I guess she didnt notice the label on the car specifying hi-test only.

 
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Post by davidmcbeth3 » Thu. Feb. 09, 2023 1:39 pm

ColdHouse wrote:
Thu. Feb. 09, 2023 10:06 am
The funny thing about mid-grade is different areas define it differently. I remember in Colorado Regular had an octane of 85, Mid-grade was 87. Here in Connecticut Regular is 87 and mid-grade 89.

I remember hearing that if your car runs fine use the cheapest fuel because it doesn't know the difference.
Some cars require higher octane still. My cars need 91 min. Most cars can run fine on regular. I can find 91 sometimes...otherwise is the 94 I put in. When I went to pickup the used car that I purchased from the dealer, they had a free fill-up with the car. They were going to put 87 in from their on-site tank...when I stopped them, they had to go to a gas station to fill it up with 94.

Follow the car manufacturer's recommendations.

 
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Post by hank2 » Thu. Feb. 09, 2023 7:18 pm

I've read that more than half of the new vehicles that you can buy in the US either require or strongly recommend premium. For some years now. 91 PO semi-premium is usually good enough. Some say that the only fuel that will be available in the near future will be premium. All the turbo and ultra high compression DI engines are the reason. 62 mpg CAFE mandates almost here.


 
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Post by Sunny Boy » Thu. Feb. 09, 2023 9:05 pm

hank2 wrote:
Thu. Feb. 09, 2023 7:18 pm
I've read that more than half of the new vehicles that you can buy in the US either require or strongly recommend premium. For some years now. 91 PO semi-premium is usually good enough. Some say that the only fuel that will be available in the near future will be premium. All the turbo and ultra high compression DI engines are the reason. 62 mpg CAFE mandates almost here.

Our 2020 Ford Edge has the Eco-boost turbo. Regular gasoline is what Ford recommends. Same with the 2020 Escape Eco-boost we had. The 2000 VW Passat we had was also a turbo that used regular.

Our 2011 Escape had the flex-fuel engine. Could run on anything at the pump. The computer would adjust the fuel and timing to match whatever the octane or ethanol mix was.

I understand that there are other auto manufacture's cars can also adjust to whatever the gasoline is.

Paul

 
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Post by SMITTY » Thu. Feb. 09, 2023 9:25 pm

In theory they adjust, but we all know reality is much different.

Case in point, my '07 Silverado with the LMG 5.3 - also flex fuel. Knocked like hell on 87 when at full bore or towing, right from the day I drove it off the lot. I made it knock on the test drive! The computer just couldn't pull enough timing out of it. When I started towing more frequently I just bit the bullet and kept her full of 93. Only thing that makes it go away.

One time I was being a cheapskate and tried 89. Had to haul a car up to ME that week. I couldn't go over 50 MPH on hills, or else I'd have scattered the engine all over the highway! You should've heard the violence happening inside all 8. Makes me cringe just thinking about it. I couldn't give it any more than 1/4 pedal!

I plan on giving this engine a complete overhaul, since I have a whole room full of go-fast parts just waiting to go on it. I don't trust this engine enough to bolt them on without internal mods. It's been burning oil since 50k, and still has the stock AFM lifters at 126k hard miles. Just a matter of time. I've been running a Range AFM disabler since 70k, so that's the only reason they haven't failed yet.

The reason they can run 85 at high elevation is engines run pig rich up there. A rich mixture is a hedge against detonation, so you can get away with 2 point lower octane ratings.

 
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Post by freetown fred » Thu. Feb. 09, 2023 9:31 pm

Used to have to add octane booster out in Sturgis, S.D.- in the old shovel head---carb was set for Penna. or N.Y.

 
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Post by hank2 » Thu. Feb. 09, 2023 11:10 pm

Sunny Boy wrote:
Thu. Feb. 09, 2023 9:05 pm
Our 2020 Ford Edge has the Eco-boost turbo. Regular gasoline is what Ford recommends. Same with the 2020 Escape Eco-boost we had. The 2000 VW Passat we had was also a turbo that used regular.

Our 2011 Escape had the flex-fuel engine. Could run on anything at the pump. The computer would adjust the fuel and timing to match whatever the octane or ethanol mix was.

I understand that there are other auto manufacture's cars can also adjust to whatever the gasoline is.

Paul
That's interesting! The Fords must use a pretty conservative ignition timing advance curve. Turbo vehicles have very conservative top advance levels. Sure save you a lot of money though. On the vehicles that adjust to less octane than is recommended or required to save the engine, the result is lowered gas mileage and performance. No free lunch. There's such a high price difference for premium gas these days, that I suspect it is a cost wash going either route. More than half of newer vehicles require or strongly recommend premium or something close to it.

 
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Post by SMITTY » Fri. Feb. 10, 2023 12:11 pm

I'd never run anything less than premium in ANY turbocharged or supercharged engine. Just asking for trouble there, computer or no computer.

 
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Post by SMITTY » Fri. Feb. 10, 2023 12:13 pm

freetown fred wrote:
Thu. Feb. 09, 2023 9:31 pm
Used to have to add octane booster out in Sturgis, S.D.- in the old shovel head---carb was set for Penna. or N.Y.
I hear that, Fred. My RD is the same. I tuned it on crappy MA fuel, so whenever I fill it with ethanol free gas, it runs SUPER rich!

 
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Post by ColdHouse » Fri. Feb. 10, 2023 12:23 pm

I do not think the 2007 C280 has a turbo. I had it on a road trip not long ago and got 28mpg. I don't know what they are supposed to get but I thought that was pretty decent for that car running on the cheapest fuel available.

I have a 2010 Yukon that has a 5.3. For years I used that to tow an auto trailer. Even over the Rocky Mountains. Never used anything but Regular gasoline and never had an issue with lack of power.

 
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Post by Sunny Boy » Sat. Feb. 11, 2023 12:46 pm

SMITTY wrote:
Fri. Feb. 10, 2023 12:11 pm
I'd never run anything less than premium in ANY turbocharged or supercharged engine. Just asking for trouble there, computer or no computer.
What trouble?

The 2000 Passat had about 180,000 miles on it when we traded it in. Still got great gas milage and didn't burn any oil. Only thing I didn't like about it having a turbo was having to spend more because it had to use full synthetic oil and back then the oil change interval was 2500 miles. Only trouble it had was a worn-out clutch disc at 100K miles and the AC compressor quit on the previous owner shortly after the warrantee was up.

Our two 2020 eco-boost Fords have not had any problems in the tens of thousands of miles on each with just regular gas.... which is what Ford says to use in them. And Ford says to use the less expensive blended oil, not full synthetic.

Stepson's BMW had to have high test gas and full synthetic oil, but he didn't have to buy much because it spent a lot of time in the dealer's shop getting fixed. Sold it after having it less than a year. :roll:

Paul


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